Earwa > General Earwa
On the Nature of the No-God
MSJ:
--- Quote from: Triskele on August 01, 2015, 07:17:22 pm ---That would be interesting too if somehow birth could only occur if Yatwer were in Her natural place in the Outside and bringing Her into Earwa is what prevents birth.
But then I'm trying to figure out what the other implications would be if one could summon others...like if one summoned the god of disease would disease no longer happen? That doesn't seem to make as much sense.
But I do think that the use of the word "summoned" suggests it's some kind of agency from the Outside.
--- End quote ---
Really never thought of this before, but it really does make a lot of sense. Great speculation!
Francis Buck:
--- Quote from: profgrape on July 30, 2015, 09:14:35 pm ---A handful of half-baked reasons for the Yatwer = No-God idea:
1. TTT glossary entry on The Apocalypse includes the line "In the spring of 2143, the No-God, summoned by means unknown, first drew breath." The only other cases we've seen that involved summoning dealt with bringing agencies from the Outside into Earwa.
2. There's something fitting about the No-God being a literal inversion of an actual God.
3. Yatwer is the goddess of birth. And the No-God's existence stopped birth.
4. The Gods vs. Kellhus are an important theme in the second series. But the only unequivocal example we have of a God directly intervening in the world is through Yatwer -- why?
5. Madness flinched when he read my earlier post.
--- End quote ---
Good stuff. Some thoughts:
1. I also think it implies that something was brought from the Outside. I suspect the No-God already exists there (and has always existed), or something like that.
2. I absolutely believe that the No-God is meant to be an inversion of our stereotypical (semi-Western) notion of God. In TSA, the God is the sum of all souls, all things, the Absolute. It is the creative force behind existence, and it has all the answers. The No-God, on the other hand, is personified Nothingness (as opposed to the Everything-ness that is god). It is an inherent destroyer, a void of being/existence, and it has no answers -- not even about itself.
3. I think Yatwer's true cosmic "opposite" is Gilgaol. As we know, these two are the most popular, and the most powerful. Only they can "seize" a soul. Birth and War can also be looked at as Life and Death, which makes sense of why they're the most powerful of the gods. I think the No-God is equally destructive to both sides though. War thrives on the outflux of souls, Birth on the influx. The No-God breaks the whole system.
4. Building on my earlier thought, I would say we've seen quite a few examples of Gilgaol's presence in Earwa, though not (yet) as directly as Yatwer. There are tons of references to Gilgaol being seen in characters like Cnaiur (whom literally describes having a "second soul" at times when his rage is at maximum overdrive), or other war-like characters. The Knife of Many Hands is even more overt about this with Ratakila.
profgrape:
I guess the difference is between summon and imprison. If, perhaps, the God of disease was summoned and imprisoned in a Carapace, it could mean the end of at least some form of disease.
locke:
--- Quote from: H on July 30, 2015, 08:19:31 pm ---
--- Quote ---Bashrag beat the ground with their great hammers, while Sranc heaved in imbecile masses. They swallowed the surrounding plains, loping in armour of tanned human skin, gibbering like apes, throwing themselves at the ramparts the Men of Kyraneas had made of Mengedda’s ruins. And behind them, the whirlwind … a great winding rope sucking the dun earth into black heavens, elemental and indifferent, roaring ever nearer, come to snuff out the last light of Men.
Come to seal the World shut.
--- End quote ---
I still don't understand how the No-God works, or what it really is, but I think I am convinced that it does indeed seal the World off from the Outside. This is why births cannot happen while the No-God exists, because it somehow does not allow the Outside to open, admitting a soul into the World.
--- Quote ---Each man, he explained, was a kind of hole in existence, a point where the Outside penetrated the world.
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
If it's yatwer it works by sealing the outside off from the world, not the other way around. A distinction with a difference.
profgrape:
Ok, doubling down on this crackpot: what if *all* of the Gods were inprisoned in the Carapace? The Consult find a way to gather the "thousand warring splinters" and lock them away. It offers an alternative explanation for the Gods ignorance of the No-God. And it might explain the Indigo Plague that occurred after the No-God's defeat.
@locke, that's a good point. Only thing I can think is that perhaps the Outside isn't so much a place where Gods and Ciphrang hang out, but instead the collective of what Meppa deems "hungers across the surface of eternity". So perhaps what's really happening is imprisoning the Outside itself and therefore, sealing the world?
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