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Messages - sciborg2

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991
Philosophy & Science / Re: Is the Brain a Digital Computer?
« on: February 01, 2014, 05:08:51 am »
Consciousness & the Brain: John Searle at TEDxCERN

Searle is interesting, rejecting both the computational consciousness argument and the immaterial possibility.

So consciousness is biological and irreducible....curious.

992
The Forum of Interesting Things / Re: Sciborg's Indie Game Thread
« on: January 01, 2014, 02:25:56 pm »
It's me treating my private history like it matters, but at the point they used picking a lock as a narrative moment, is the point I inwardly groaned. Not, like, a moment where you decide to turn off someones life support or not. No, picking a lock. Because that's so much a story moment.

It's worth reading these things, but taken with a pinch of salt.

I have to go back and check, but I think he addresses the lock stuff in another post.

=-=-=

Top 10 indie horror games of 2013:

http://indiegames.com/2013/12/top_10_indie_horror_games_of_2_1.html

993
The Forum of Interesting Things / Re: Sciborg's Indie Game Thread
« on: December 14, 2013, 01:30:23 am »
Five design pillars of SOMA (a game about AI and consciousness that should appeal to Second Apocalypsers!):

http://frictionalgames.blogspot.se/2013/12/the-five-foundational-design-pillars-of.html

Quote
OMA is meant to explore deep subjects such as consciousness and the nature of existence. We could have done this with cutscenes and long conversations, but we chose not to. We want players to become immersed in these thematics, and the discussions to emerge from within themselves.

994
The Forum of Interesting Things / Re: Sciborg's Indie Game Thread
« on: December 11, 2013, 02:02:21 am »
The Novelist Was So Beautiful It Killed Me

http://indiestatik.com/2013/12/10/the-novelist/

The reviewer confused things a bit with how he intertwined his own past, but the game itself does seem intriguing.

Quote
    For those looking for a healthy mix of supernatural stealth game and emotionally driven interactive fiction, The Novelist is likely the best (and perhaps only) game on the market able to pull off a convincing portrayal of a nuclear family on the verge of collapse, and neatly ties in a helpful ghost-thing that allows you to experiment with balancing a career and a family. It’s a beautiful, if brief game about what’s really important in life, mixed in with a bit of suspense to keep you hooked. But I’d be lying if it didn’t sock me right in the gut from its opening moments until the bitterly ironic end.

995
Still interested.

I've been busy on some other stuff. I'll give the RQ rules a look.

996
I await with bated breath, but only because I think you have used that phrase 3 times now. You always promise to come back with something later as if you have nothing to say, but at the same time you have juuuust enough time to quote 1 thing and wholesale disagree with it without hardly any justification.

Thus the 10 second youtube clips. I'll keep waiting though, since this is a forum and its here for as long as it takes.

Its just going to be a slog if it takes you weeks to formulate a response to 1/10 of the conversation that ensued in the meantime.

No time limit. Don't feel obligated to give 1 sentence "but wait there's more" speeches.

Perhaps you can tell me what points you feel I've failed addressed, since I'm actually confused by the idea I've ignored any point you've raised.

Clearly you're more emotionally invested in this topic than I am, given your amusing descent into derisive condescension, so for your sake I'll refrain from posting piecemeal in the future.

997
RPG Discussion / Re: Any pen&paper roleplayers here?
« on: November 28, 2013, 09:03:02 pm »
I'm willing to try and learn about a new system, though ideally this means whatever system is picked is not overly rules heavy.  ;D

(I'm assuming we're not trying to make a rules system from scratch, but feel free to correct me.)

998

Don't feel compelled to respond, especially if you don't feel up to it, but I'm wondering after the distinction here. If the first portion of your sentence is true, then why isn't "examining the worthiness of [military spending] compared to something more beneficial to the tax payer ... the only point of contention left?"

Oh, the bolded is a perfectly legitimate topic. I just figured this particular thread is about space monies.

Like I said earlier though, I'm not demanding people in the thread stick to X. If people want to move on and discuss NASA spending in relation to the budget at large that's fine with me.

999
Yeah, that pretty much captures what I was getting at.

Sorry for the confusion. Lack of sleep, long hours.

1000
Sorry, I exacerbated miscommunication with my shorthand.

But:

My focus is X, where X is "Can space monies be spent on things that deliver more benefits to the society being taxed?"

So yeah, military spending vs space spending is Y. Which is cool, just not an argument about X as far as I can tell.

My understanding is that Sci strictly wants to debate where the 1/100th of taxpayer dollars that funds NASA could be better or differently spent to achieve more...

And so I shall henceforth limit my engagement in this context to:

My proposal for an interdisciplinary game development education program seems like a far more reliable investment.

Maybe. Does it really seem likely to you that it would produce anywhere near same results that NASA has with their 1/100th of the pie in fifty years?

[Insert research other than NASA here]; same question...

Well that's the question I proposed though I'm not emotionally invested enough to demand everything focus on that. It just seems like everyone here is in agreement about the military vs space monies question, so examining the worthiness of space monies compared to something more beneficial to the tax payer is the only point of contention left.

By the way, I don't think I've ever changed my stance, though I'm willing to accept I didn't make things clear. AFAICT I've never changed the rules, but as the purpose of this is to reexamine our own reasoning it's good to know I need to be clearer.

Anyway I'll write a new post clarifying things at a later date. I'll spend some time on it so as to ideally remove any miscommunication.

1001
RPG Discussion / Re: Programming is lonely...
« on: November 28, 2013, 03:56:49 pm »
Callan, was there supposed to be a link in that post?

1002
I'm not straight on the specifics of 'skeptical materialists' or the 'qualia of Truth' but I was asking after "the possibility of finding Truth via drugs" as well (you somewhat addressed the "one deception over the other").

I guess in simplified form I don't see how drugs can fake subjective feelings of Truth if all feelings are ultimately illusory from the third person objective framework of science.

It's also problematic, to me anyway, to deny someone their personal feeling of gnosis if they aren't harming anyone. I have a friend who shed his depression after an ayuhuasca trip wherein he contacted the goddess Sophia.

Now, I don't believe in Sophia (or Zeus/Allah/Shiva/etc) but I don't know if there's a huge problem with someone else believing in what I and science consider an illusion.

1003
Yeah, I think the way we perceive argument structure is vastly different. You think I'm ignoring/derailing, I think you're doing the same.

So let's back up a step and try to get back to a logical framework devoid of emotion or it's just an ouroboros of borderline ad hominem.

Give me a point you think I've ignored, and I'll either concede it or present a rebuttal as my neuronal wiring dictates.

1004
Apologies double posting, but seems cleaner to separate responses.


I had hoped you were simply honouring your namesake but you were so convincing :P.

Lol.

EDIT: I still think that, even if it's just a forum on the internet that never has any impact outside it's pages o'Web, it is important to articulate how we might do better with spending our collective human time (in research expenditures). We can do better.

I think the question about the opportunity cost of space monies is in itself worthwhile, because it asks us to surrender something we hold dear. If we're just nodding our heads in agreement about a topic this place loses the charm of Bakker's own gadfly nature.

The very fact Tyson's argument relies on an appeal to our dreams shows how silly materialists can be even after they renounce/denounce the dualists. What makes him so confident the upcoming generations' neuronal wiring that controls inspiration will stimulated by pictures from space?

My proposal for an interdisciplinary game development education program seems like a far more reliable investment.

Heck, I'd love for private money to go into space exploration, but from the standpoint of being loyal to the investor - in this case the public - I can't help but feel like NASA's space exploration research isn't going to benefit the tax payer.

I suppose the caveat is the need to leave Earth behind, but that only further suggests shifting the funds toward green tech research.

1005
I've just fully encapsulated your arguments into 10 second clips. No need to get depressed. Maybe eventually you can have an idea that isn't so reducible.  ;)

I don't think you've encapsulated my arguments so much as tried to reduce the moral question to a caricature you can use to rationalize your arguments as having addressed what I previously qualified as X.

Alternatively, part of me thinks a rebuttal to everything you've said can be captured by "Whitey on the Moon", but I'll do you the courtesy of formalizing my thoughts.  ;)

So:

Perhaps you just didn't understand my point, or maybe you can't see how weak your arguments are from an investor standpoint. (Except for the asteroid detection.)

As someone who's done grant writing for living, I can tell you that trying to procure government funds by making promises about beneficial side effects rather than addressing the benefits of the actual project is very unlikely to be successful.

How do you even measure the benefits, or try to produce a reliable strategy for return on investment?

So far your argument seems to hinge on past technologies born of the space program that turned out to be helpful to society at large, though a lot of that seems incidental to the original purpose.

After a point that's just luck then right, and if your argument relies so much side effects then it seems to me you are already agreeing research into space exploration is largely worthless to the public at large if those benefits don't manifest.

As for the idea the Tyson's Star Trek wish fulfillment fantasy justifies the expenditure because it is interdisciplinary, I think green technologies can also bring in multiple disciplines but also benefit far more people in a more immediate fashion.

Heck, I was reading about the innovations in computer science that game production brought about. I'm guessing using NASA's budget to fund some education program relating to game development would inspire far more kids at the apparently critical early age in a far more reliable manner than pictures of rockets and planets.

Or just use the money for research in terrestrial fields. But space monies seems like one of the lowest ranking options compared to so many other things.

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