so who the hell is the "traveler"? consult, imperial, a hunter seeking a hare and finding a dragon and unable to run it down therefor?
My best personal guess at this point is the Ministrate, who I expect to play a big role in the Momemn arc of TUC.
Well cyber space was hungery, decided to take my post for a snack. Oh well, I guess basically im with Madness, someone who commands "Ironsouls" respect and had the ability to track down the scalpers must be powerful, or at least working for AK. Otherwise, the traveler would likely have been killed.
Quote from: WilshireWell cyber space was hungery, decided to take my post for a snack. Oh well, I guess basically im with Madness, someone who commands "Ironsouls" respect and had the ability to track down the scalpers must be powerful, or at least working for AK. Otherwise, the traveler would likely have been killed.
Could you expand a bit? I thought it was revealed in TWLW, but I can't find it and I still have no idea who the traveller's supposed to be.
Quote from: Tony PQuote from: WilshireWell cyber space was hungery, decided to take my post for a snack. Oh well, I guess basically im with Madness, someone who commands "Ironsouls" respect and had the ability to track down the scalpers must be powerful, or at least working for AK. Otherwise, the traveler would likely have been killed.
Could you expand a bit? I thought it was revealed in TWLW, but I can't find it and I still have no idea who the traveller's supposed to be.
The 'traveler' that is being refered to here is the man who shows up in the prologue of The Judging Eye. He is only called "traveler" and it is in the pov of said character. He finds the scalpers in the wilderness and there is a quick exchange with "IronSoul".
Thats it. Its maybe 2 or 3 pages and nothing is ever mentioned of this "traveler" again. He walks off into the wilderness unmolested. I figure, based on what we know of lord kosotor that he must be working for Kellhus in some way, because nothing but his deep respect for Kell would stay his trigger happy personality.
It could be a magi or a skinspy posing as a minister for Kell, but I dunno what the point of the whole thing would be for the Consult, and magi or not the only person or group who (at least to my knowledge) would have a message to deliver to the Skin Eaters would be Kell (based on the conclusion of this particular story).
Quote from: WilshireThe 'traveler' that is being refered to here is the man who shows up in the prologue of The Judging Eye. He is only called "traveler" and it is in the pov of said character. He finds the scalpers in the wilderness and there is a quick exchange with "IronSoul".
Thats it. Its maybe 2 or 3 pages and nothing is ever mentioned of this "traveler" again. He walks off into the wilderness unmolested. I figure, based on what we know of lord kosotor that he must be working for Kellhus in some way, because nothing but his deep respect for Kell would stay his trigger happy personality.
It could be a magi or a skinspy posing as a minister for Kell, but I dunno what the point of the whole thing would be for the Consult, and magi or not the only person or group who (at least to my knowledge) would have a message to deliver to the Skin Eaters would be Kell (based on the conclusion of this particular story).
Thanks. I knew the character, but I thought there was a certain theory about who he could be (as in, a specific identity). I think it's fair to assume that he's Kellhus' agent, since Kosoter is an extreme Kellhus-fanboi, and apparently working under his instruction. IIRC, the Skin Eaters went back to Marrow to await their new orders (taking on Akka's mission), and the Consult were clearly surprised that Akka was back in the game, so it's definitely not them.
Yeah that seems to be the most general opinion, but there isn't a ton of hard evidence.
"Very beginning" can be ambiguous if you want it to be. Beginning of the Holy Way, beginning of the Skin Eaters, beginning of his life, beginning of this current expedition, etc.
Yeah my guess is that it's just some Ministrate dude. It seems likely that Kellhus would train these guys in certain ways as well, enough so that they could serve the purposes required for what the traveler achieves. I also agree that the "We find everyone" line hints towards an organization. Not only that, but during TWLW, when Mimara is kind hanging back and talking to Sarl a few times, he actually explains to her who found the Skin-Eaters, and his answer is the Ministrate. I kind of doubt it was Kayutas honestly, I just think he's too important to go on an expedition like that.
I'm also very curious about Sarl in TUC. He has qirri, enough that he could survive and tag along behind Akka and Mimara without them realizing (for awhile, anyway). And he's already fulfilling the whole "Gollum" thing. I expect we'll see that expanded on. Sarl will be Smeagol, the Captain's head will be Gollum (a delusion in Sarl's mind, of course). And I think the "precious" will be Mimara. She was the only one that showed kindness to him -- both by talking/joking with him on the trek through the Istyuli Plains, and then later by giving him the qirri.
I'd love if TUC opened with a Sarl POV, hunched on top of a hill overlooking Ishual, talking between himself and the "Captain".
My personal nerdanel, as I believe you call it here, is that the traveler's identity is largely irrelevant compared to his purpose.
I always loved my namesake and he's definitely my favourite character. I got to wondering though at some point...just what is Kosoter? The first theory I had was just that he was simply Palatine (I think?) Soter because he was a noble Veteran from the Holy War that definitely was on Team Kellhus. Then I wondered if he was one of Nascenti but they would all have powerful positions in the Ministrate and not be out killing sranc for a living. I've concluded that he was indeed just a fanatical warrior from the Unification Wars that became famous but the blasted and evil things Mimara sees in him with her Judging Eye speaks of something far darker and terrible than anything else. Achamian is clearly going to be pretty damned, certainly moreso than the Skin Eaters, whatever their histories. Surely Kosoter can't just be that much more of a dick than them as far as the gods are concerned? There had to be some other answers.
I think the scene that really did it for me was when he looked at all the fire and horror of Moria 2.0 and everyone else thought they'd come to the outer precincts of Hell. He dismissed it because "if it was Hell, I would remember". At first this simply sounded like some token badass comment but Kosoter doesn't just go around making badass comments. He isn't Cnaiür. Instead he makes a fairly cryptic comment about Hell and it dawned on me later that maybe he is telling the truth...or thereabouts. Maybe Kellhus did indeed make his own Inverse Fire and show it to a bunch of people to utterly condition them to his cause?
Instead, he chose Kosoter, a man that has been going on slogs since they became a thing. Why? He must have enough wealth or influence to be somewhere else? It can't simply be devotion to Kellhus that led him to do what he did and what no other men really could do. Kellhus intended for Mimara to be kept safe for a reason. He had a plan for her and Achamian).
The total crackpot I've also been kicking around about it is the one off-reference to walking the Outside. If someone goes there, they might return possessed by a ciphrang. Kellhus went around with the heads of them so he's clearly done it and knows how from the Daimos he's been learning. I thought this a simple misdirection that you can't see Kellhus' POV not only because it'd give away everything but because he's now controlled by a ciphrang. A ciphrang is given a task by its master when it is forced into the world and it isn't released until it's done it's job. It will do ANYTHING to accomplish it. I think it's possible that Kosoter was taken away by the traveler and possessed by a ciphrang and that's why he simply stands there when he's taken Akka and Mimara to the library. He just sits there, waiting to die. Relieved, almost. Relieved of all his burdens and free to return to the Outside like a good little ciphrang. I definitely think that's a far out possibility but it's one I've been considering for a long time.
Still though, far more likely for me that the traveler is just a dude that came up to show Kosoter the IF and convince him to protect Mimara and Akka until they get to the library. He must have been convinced that she has the power to save their souls. With his task complete, he accepts his fate. With his reference to remembering Hell (actual Hell, not simply terrible conditions from the war) and how utterly evil he looked in the Judging Eye, there's no way he can just be a simple dude.
Thanks, Curethan. I had misread.
Though, I think that Kellhus would use the Daimos to much the same effect as the IF.
Well, aside from the Scarlet Spires (Daimotic Sorcerers) no one can actually see the Outside or know for sure that it exists...
Well, aside from the Scarlet Spires (Daimotic Sorcerers) no one can actually see the Outside or know for sure that it exists...
Well, aside from the Scarlet Spires (Daimotic Sorcerers) no one can actually see the Outside or know for sure that it exists...
Not so sure about this. There have been a couple of references in the books that Cishaurim know what awaits in the Outside, most recently by Psatma when she is having one of her little debates with Meppa.
Well, aside from the Scarlet Spires (Daimotic Sorcerers) no one can actually see the Outside or know for sure that it exists...
Not so sure about this. There have been a couple of references in the books that Cishaurim know what awaits in the Outside, most recently by Psatma when she is having one of her little debates with Meppa.
Sorry, I trapped myself in a perspective of "as accessible to Kellhus." I assume he wasn't able to duplicate the Third Sight - or he has and we don't know it yet (though both of these options also presuppose that he isn't in contact with Meppa).
Ah, sorry, I took your comment out of context. I see what you mean.