Earwa > The White-Luck Warrior
Meppa is X (II)
geoffrobro:
--- Quote from: locke on April 07, 2016, 07:10:30 pm ---
--- Quote from: Wilshire on April 07, 2016, 02:22:05 pm ---
--- Quote from: locke on April 06, 2016, 07:50:15 pm ---The entire genesis point for me in causing me to subject Kellhus to skepticism originates from the total assumption that sight is superior and that moe was crippled by his lack of sight.
I think there is a very good textual argument that in this world sight is profoundly deceiving and more importantly that sight is inherently deceiving.
Kellhus never questions his eyes, never questions what his eyes tell him. He ALWAYS believes his eyes. and this means he is subject to inherent cognitive traps in considering moe. He puts so much value on eyes he assumes there is no value to blindness relative to the value he places on sight. However the reader has been informed many times that in this world there is tremendous value in blindness.
Ultimately, kellhus reliance on his eyes means he is blind to his own blindspots, easy to deceive and manipulate by someone with awareness of these limitations kellhus suffers from.
And being aware that oneself and others are blind to their own blindspots and thus can be manipulated easily is sort of the entire essence of the dunyain ethos.
Kellhus just misses the oneself bit, which is the crucial bit.
--- End quote ---
I think this is a pretty good point. Unfortunately, there are so few details given about what makes blindness special. It certainly is, but the how and why escape me. It seems like a logical argument that whatever makes blindness special is tied to something outside the reach of the Dunyain. Things like the JE, and the Psukhe, that remain outside their grasp, if only for plot reasons.
--- Quote from: Blackstone on April 06, 2016, 08:05:39 pm ---
--- Quote from: locke on April 06, 2016, 07:50:15 pm ---
I think there is a very good textual argument that in this world sight is profoundly deceiving and more importantly that sight is inherently deceiving.
--- End quote ---
I'm of the opinion that if losing your sight was an advantage, all Dunyain would be blind.
--- End quote ---
And I think this is a big reason why. Moe cannot have been the first Dunyain to go blind. Now, Moe was blinded later in life, after he knew about the Outside, and sorcery, so its entirely possible that when he was blinded something extraordinary happened.
You're point about Kellhus being deceived by his sight is particularly salient, though I think potentially less important that you're suggesting. Is Kellhus deceived by his sight? Absolutely, just look at this conversation when he says that he sees the halos around his hands but muses that its strange they cast no light. However, I think that the deception is unimportant. Since Earwa is a meaningful world, being deceived is more important that being correct. Because Kellhus sees the world that everyone else sees, and he buys into the same biases as everyone else (even the ones he created), the fact of his deception is no longer relevant. Subjective realites become objective realities, and by keeping oneself outside of it, they lose the ability to interact with the new reality. Objective reality becomes subjective.
I think I'm losing track of the path I set out on. What was my point? Anyway, I've discounted the possibility of Moenghus still being in play, mostly for my own sanity and enjoyment, as the other possibilities seem more interesting to me. As such, I can probably justify away any theory that contradicts that fundamental belief... Though I do always enjoy the discussion the disagreement always brings about.
--- End quote ---
Iirc, we know the dunyain manipulate sensory deprivation, seemingly specifically highlighting blindness from the trial of the thousand thousand halls kellhus obliquely refers to.
I think subjective makes reality theories are way off and directly refuted by the text in kellhus and aurangs conversation.
The thousandfold thought is described as a rule change to replace one religious lie with a new religious lie, it is not making new reality, it is facilitating a population belief shift.
I think sight is blindness, because sight enforces self-deception.
Sight does not come before. Darkness comes before.
In other words blindness comes before.
The whole dunyain mythos of "the darkness that comes before" is basically an explicit textual statement of the value of blindness and the centrality of blindness as a highly regarded dunyain value.
--- End quote ---
Dunyain and blindness, my mind jumps to a couple parts in the books, most of which you have all covered. But the part when The Holy War first enters Caraskand and Kellhus is being chased by the group of skin-spies. In the darkness of that house Kellhus gain an advantage over the Skin-spies in the dark. As if he was trained to fight in pitch black darkness.
And maybe the "trail in the wildness" Kellhus goes thru at the beginning of the series was to learn that witnessing the world, that blindness is truer then vision in Earwa, but Kellhus failed.
Somnambulist:
Folks, the debate is over. I figured out who Meppa is without a doubt. Look inside only if you want to rot your soul FOREVER.
(click to show/hide)
I told you. Now you have to live with that shit.
Blackstone:
--- Quote from: Somnambulist on April 13, 2016, 11:38:56 pm ---Folks, the debate is over. I figured out who Meppa is without a doubt. Look inside only if you want to rot your soul FOREVER.
(click to show/hide)
I told you. Now you have to live with that shit.
--- End quote ---
Ha ha ha. Awesome.
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