Earwa > The Thousandfold Thought
So what exactly is the Thousandfold Thought?
What Came Before:
--- Quote from: Wilshire ---
--- Quote from: Swense ---So the Dunyain goal would be to strive to alter that at all - change the utterly deterministic path everything walks?
Edit: the absolute being the moment from which determinism begins?
--- End quote ---
I found this interesting. The goal of the Dunyain, as least as far as we have been told, is to obtain the absolute. So to obtain the absolute, to be a "self moving soul".
I have questioned why everyone who seems to "grasp" TTT seems to want to take it in a different direction. Maybe this is because there can only be 1 Absolute (no highlander reference intended). If TTT is the inevitable conclusion of following the probability trance long enough, then it would seem to be reasonable that to grasp the Absolute, one would need to control TTT.
TTT seems to be the culmination of the darkness that comes before. The culmination of all things that determine the actions of man. Now we go to the dunyain who want to be self moving. To do this nothing must come before. If even the Dunyain, after 2000 years of selective breeding, are in this ball of probability that is TTT, then they would need to control it to become outside of it.
So then there certainly could only be 1 person directing it, because baring being the only one, someone else would be controlling the future of you and everyone else.
Also I think it might be worth nothing the the Dunyain in Ishual cannot grasp TTT. This is because TTT is the inevitable conclusion of the probability trance followed with ALL variables. This includes war, sorcery, presumable the Tekne to some degree, and the Consult. This may help to explain why Ishual is not filled with Dunyain freaking about about the end of the world.
Creackpot?:
This could be one of the reason why upon finding Ishual, the original Dunyain ignored and even hid the existence of sorcery. They may have already have known seen TTT. They knew that the current apocalypse would not end the world, but that the second would certainly be the end of all things if nothing was done. So they hid themselves away in order to save the world from the end. It could have been that 2000 years of preparation, and perhaps many more, would be needed to save the world. If Ishual was left to try and control every one of the doomsday variables then maybe they would have been doomed to fail. But, if they could focus on just a few, if they could be given the tools to say detect the yet to be developed skin-spys, the brain power to wield the most devastating sorceries (without the need to develop scorecery for those 2000 years), and the physical prowess to defeat any circumstance.
Could the Dunyain have "stumbled" into Ishual and made it their contingecy play to change the fate of the world?
I may have more things to crackpot about but for now I'm out of time.
--- End quote ---
What Came Before:
--- Quote from: lockesnow ---
--- Quote from: The Sharmat ---I sort of harbor the personal crackpot theory that Moenghus just made it up.
--- End quote ---
Moenghus thought, "how can I throw Kellhus off my scent, if he knows what I conspire he will try to overthrow me or stop me or seize control from me... how can I distract him? I know! I'll send a minion with a cryptic message that contains an appropriately cryptic phrase, he'll think the phrase is my entire plan and never bother to look beyond or around the phrase, I'll trap him in his own expectations!"
Come to think of it, Kellhus does sort of go 'shiny!' at the mention of TTT, and in a sense, he becomes trapped by it. TTT is a way to flatter a Dunyain's sense of superiority to the world, an illusion that he can master all circumstance and all men. Come to think of it. he is also trapped by assuming the roles of God and Emperor.
If Moenghus survived, he would be free to act however he pleased.
--- End quote ---
What Came Before:
--- Quote from: Callan S. ---
--- Quote ---I sort of harbor the personal crackpot theory that Moenghus just made it up.
--- End quote ---
Heh, I could like that theory, if he was worldborn.
--- End quote ---
What Came Before:
--- Quote from: The Sharmat ---Well given that it does give Kellhus what he wants to hear (that he has surpassed his father) it does sound like something a Dunyain would use.
Also note that neither of them ever describe what the Thousandfold Thought dictated they do, and that Kellhus was forced to cut his attempted interrogation of Moenghus short due to Cnaiur's imminent arrival.
And finally, consider that Kellhus left the grotto in Kyudea with absolutely no information he didn't have before he entered.
EDIT: It also occurs to me that throughout the entire series, never in his internal monologue does Kellhus acknowledge that his reasoning could be flawed. Only that his knowledge is imperfect. He seems to assume that had he the correct information, he would always act on it appropriately to achieve his goals. (Although come to think of it he does later come to regret not killing Cnaiur. Still, he never considers the possibility as a general phenomena.)
Moenghus on the other hand acknowledges that even a Dunyain has vestigial emotions and biases that can interfere with their pursuit of the shortest path. That they are flawed.
Which sounds more like the failing of a world born man? What is more likely, that Kellhus alone in all the universe posseses the capacity for perfect reason, or that he's a remarkable yet wholly fallible individual?
--- End quote ---
What Came Before:
--- Quote from: lockesnow ---
--- Quote from: The Sharmat ---Which sounds more like the failing of a world born man? What is more likely, that Kellhus alone in all the universe posseses the capacity for perfect reason, or that he's a remarkable yet wholly fallible individual?
--- End quote ---
this is something that bugged me the entire first read of the series, that Kellhus was rarely questioning himself, only noting the flaws in others. And that we readers were supposed to let him get away with it because he fits the script of the traditional fantasy protagonist hero ubermench.
I think there's something literary and thematic going on with the contradiction that Kellhus embodies in not noting his own failings, but I'm not certain we're going to get all of that until after the series is complete. :-/
--- End quote ---
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