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Messages - Cüréthañ

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61
The Second Apocalypse needs a bit more humour in the third series.

Either we get Tiny Rick Kellhus

-or-

we get Kellhus and Malowebi's heads trying to steer a bumbling, brokedown Bashrag from Golgoteroth to Zeum in an odd couple road trip.

62
The Unholy Consult / Re: Ramblings of a Broken Soul
« on: July 31, 2017, 12:34:24 pm »
Welcome Artaois.

I'll address a bit of your questions about Kelmomas. I like some of your ideas about him, he's definitely a pawn and we can't be sure how Kellhus views him.

But perhaps it might help to think of him as being a very unruly portion of causality - interfering and being manipulated by several forces in manners that transcend causality. Yatwer's White-Luck should ensure certain events, as does his apparent relationship with Ajokli and his destiny as the No-god. Kellhus would have had to plan around these factors without betraying knowledge of them, helping here and hindering there. If that was the case, it's impossible to know and we won't find out until the final series.

My thought is that he was Ajokli's Narindar and the Four Horned Brother wanted the Apocalypse to proceed, but as it stands that is also just a theory.

63
Some good observations above. +1

Ultimately, it seems both the Dunyain and the adherents of the Inverse Fire pursue goals that defeat themselves.

64
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Inchoroi souls
« on: July 31, 2017, 09:39:18 am »
Hmm, I think the Inchoroi and Wracu are what's left of the Progenitors who manned the Ark. They probably wore bodies like suits before the Ark died, just need to transfer the Confluence between synthetic bodies. Then they found themselves trapped in their pyjammas after Arkfall.

Effectively a separate race because they wouldn't even recognize each other across the gulf of time and memory that separates them.

I doubt it really matters much, but that's how I like to believe it went down.

65
But really isn't all fiction kind of pointless? In the sense that reading it serves no function except to reflect upon ourselves and a shared mythology.

Given that this middle series thematically focuses on endless greed, control for it's own sake, ignorance-of-self and nihilism as central pitfalls of the human condition - I find the bleak finale a fitting conclusion.

But as to the point of reading it? I can't speak for others or criticize their experience, but for me, it's an emotional and intellectual reflective experience and an exercise in improving comprehension that I found very satisfying.

66
Author Q&A / Re: Unholy Consultation - *SUPER SPOILERIFIC*
« on: July 30, 2017, 03:45:20 am »
Ah. It is a sad day.

Piracy is always going to happen, but I think electronic distribution has come far enough that it doesn't have anything like the impact on actual sales that it used to. I think most types of people who would pirate fiction would have simply waited to get it from a friend or a library in pre-internet days, rather than pay a couple of dollars.

I was happy to pay $10 for the e-book while I waited for my hardback ($55) for a couple of weeks. So while that increased availability might make it easier for pirated copies to get out there already, it's also getting authors like you some extra sales. :)

67
Author Q&A / Re: Unholy Consultation - *SUPER SPOILERIFIC*
« on: July 29, 2017, 02:35:26 am »
I find this theory to be as funny as it is unlikely. Hurry up and get him weaned and into his nappy Mimara the No-God is coming.

"I'm Tiny Kellhus, bitches!" :D

Probably I am too late (it's the Erratic in me) but I'll drop a couple of lines in hope...

1. TUC imo = Fantastic work Scott, bravo.

2. C'naiur's fate: I thought this was an obvious case of inverted-ascension (inverted because Ajokli exists across the age, despite his temporal genesis occurring at the end of a frame of existence).

The Most Violent of Men becoming the Prince of Hate was a stunning scene.

But based on other readers' reactions I'm quite alone on that and so, I'm probably wrong about it.
Could you comment on that scene and C'naiur's AE storyline in general?

3. Would you say that Koringhus, Mimara and the Inverse Fire were intended to reveal the veracity of Oblivion, Redemption and Damnation or should readers consider these scenes with suspicion?

68
That's exactly what surprises him - that Kellhus might hear something new, something Aurang isn't aware of. Or that Kellhus is somehow connected to the No-God and can perceive it as its followers do, the mechanics of which are left unclear in the exchange. The No-God "speaking" in that scene might be literal or figurative even if Kellhus is actually being honest.

True, true. Perhaps I'll remember some other scrap. Nevertheless.

Interesting thought! But people are aware of the No-God without hearing it. If this connection works both ways, then the No-God should be able to know where people are without speaking to them.

Yes that stands to reason. It talks to you inside your head or with the voice of the Horde only when you are in it's area of immanence, as it literally comes before you. My speculation is that it knows you completely (like a Dunyain) at that time and can mess more directly with your soul.

Not in a comprehensive way, I'm inclined to say. It just reinforces my opinion that there is not enough information uncovered about the brain to come to conclusions. Many equivalent frameworks of reasoning about how it functions can be constructed; presently it's unclear how close any one of them is to the truth.

Thank you! It's unfortunate that my understanding of neural networks is rudimentary. I only read entry-level papers on them, and even those I failed to absorb completely. So many things to learn, so many new (not to mention old) inventions, but so little time, and such a small head...

Totally agree. :D

69
Maybe the Unholy Consult can be likened to the Red Wedding or the Empire Strikes Back?

70
Yes, but why would Aurang be worried if the No-god doesn't ever say anything aside from the same phrases the Mandate hear?
(As ever, can't trust what Kellhus says, but it is the reaction that is important.)

My thought on it's repetitive questions is that they are analogous to echo-location. The no-god overrides the transmission band of the Outside and broadcasts existential questions that causes souls to resonate. Seems fair that if all men know the direction of the No-god, it in turn knows where people are and how many of them.

My rumination on consciousness as a black box was fairly obtuse and probably wrong, but thanks for the link.  :)

The article you link is very interesting, but the study itself concerns a common specific heuristic - enabled recognition of faces. In this case it seems 25 output nodes were identified and keyed to the output characteristics, enabling prediction of the result of neural activity rather than insight into the form of the function. It's definitely a step forward but I'm not sure it is really exposing the black box issue. But then, I am not an expert.

Here's another link on the subject, if you're interested. A bit more on the machine side.

71
Well, to be fair that is the largest direct hint that the No-god is more than what his foes see. Obviously it is not conclusive, as you say.

There are a fair few other incidents where the servants of the No-god behave as though there this is the case. For instance, when Kellhus confronts Aurang-as-Esme and (probably bluffing) says he talks to the No-god and that He regards Aurang as a failure (or similar). Aurang's reaction to that suggests it hits a nerve.

Digression;
I think it's a brilliant touch that the No-god is literally a Black Box. It's becoming increasing likely in neuroscience that ignorance of how 'consciousness' itself functions is an integral part of its effectiveness in pattern recognition and decision making. The reason that neural networks are the heart of AI technology is because they operate as a black box. The problem that this raises is that it's impossible to prove they are not fallible.

72
Hmm, the Skafra comment is in one of Akka's dreams in TWP iirc. I'll try and get you a chapter and edit it into this comment.

edit: Haha, easy. Chapter One, and it's actually Nautzera dreaming and Akka dropping in to chat. Not quite as I remembered it, but;

Quote
"Our Lord," the dragon grated, "hath tasted thy king's passing, and he sayeth, 'It is done.'"

73
Indeed. I feel like there must be some confusion between the levels of consciousness discussed here.

However, even introducing terms such as sentience and awareness might not bring clarity.
The No-god at first seems non-sentient, but it says via Skafra that it has tasted Celmomas' soul and is pleased, which indicates the ability to feel. Perhaps this is only because it processes such experience through the medium of the souls it consumes, it is unclear.

I would also point out the existence of animals that are able to reason and yet lack a sense of self. The implication of that is the developmental stage of consciousness that assumes other people are facsimilies of oneself i.e. a sense of being absolute within ones' own subjective experience.

Not really trying to make any point here btw, just trying to contribute food for thought.

edit: At any rate, here's a link to a great SEP paper on consciousness if you are really bored or really interested.

74
After Ishteribinth I had realized just how pathetic the Nonmen had become, but yeah, prior to that I was hoping for a better showing from them too. And no Shauritas was sad.

Definitely dismayed by the way Sorweel went out. With you there.

But I must say, the whole thing seemed destined for a tragic end from the word go. And the return of the No-god was a given for me.

edit: I feel like these types of feelings and minor disappointments are par for the course on anything I read, but some people seem genuinely pissed off that their expectations have been thoroughly overturned. I'm reading a lot about what they didn't like but not a lot of examples of what type of ending they expected overall? e.g. Return of the King type ending, Last Argument of Kings perhaps? Idk.

75
Fair enough. To me, understanding of cause and effect is a fundamental part of reasoning. It's my position that the way the No-god communicates with it's enemies is different from the way it communicates with it's servants who are extensions of itself.

It's repetitive questions spring from the fact that it denies subjective experience. It's unable to comprehend itself from an outside perspective, because it is opaque in a metaphysical sense. Rather than being unable to perceive itself, it cannot recognize itself.

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