[mrganondorf]

The encounter between Serwe and the Kidruhil that she stabs--it seems strange to me.  US edition page 410, TDTCB.  It almost seems like the soldier is seeing divinity in her before Cnaiur arrives.

[Wilshire]

Quote the section

[mrganondorf]

When Kellhus first meets Serwe, the narration and pov stuff reminds me of what's going on in the Circumfix scene.  TDTCB, p 383

     Kellhus watched while the Scylvendi took her again.  With her whimpers, her suffocated cries, it seemed the ground beneath slowly spun, as though stars had stopped their cycle and the earth had begun to wheel instead.  There was something . . . something here, he could sense.  Something outraged.
     From what darkness had this come?
     Something is happening to me, Father.

Serwe + wheeling sky + outrage + something is happening to me father = ?

----------------------------------------

P.S. Sorry Wilshire!  Finally came back to quote the passage you asked for before.  In this bit a Nansur soldier is intending to rape Serwe, but he seems curious affected when he starts to undress her.  TDTCB, p 410

     With thoughtless economy, the older man bared hs dagger clenched her woollen shift, and slit it open from nect to belly.  Avoiding her eyes, he used the point to draw aside the cloth, revealing her right breast.
     "My," he said, exhaling a thick breath.  He reeked of onions, rotten teeth, and bitter wine.  At last he met her terrified gaze.  He raised a hand to her cheek.  The nail of his thumb was bruised purple.
     "Leave me alone," she whispered, her voice pinched by burning eyes and trembling lips.  The importent demand of a child tormented by other children.
     "Shush," he said softly.  He gently pressed her to her knees.
     "Don't be mean to me," she murmured through tears.
     "Never," he said, his voice stricken, as though with reverence.
     With a creak of leather, he fell to one knee and buried his dagger in the forest floor.  He was breathing heavily.  "Sweet Sejenus," he hissed.  He looked terrified.
     She flinched from the shaking hand he slid beneath her breast.  The first sobs wracked her.

That's when Cnaiur shows up

[Wilshire]

First scene, yes it seems something odd is happening, within kellhus if nothing else.


As for the next, the only line that stands out might be "he said, his voice stricken, as though with reverence", but I dont interpret that the same way you do. Just a horny guy about to lay the hottest woman he has ever seen.

[locke]

First scene, yes it seems something odd is happening, within kellhus if nothing else.


As for the next, the only line that stands out might be "he said, his voice stricken, as though with reverence", but I dont interpret that the same way you do. Just a horny guy about to lay the hottest woman he has ever seen.

I see you fell for it, thinking what you're meant to think and not putting together the puzzle pieces as a result.  His reaction makes no sense within the context of the scene, but if you presume for him that the ground wheeled as it did for kellhus then it suggests more.  Akka was pretty disoriented by her fucking him as well...

Perhaps we are all fucking wrong. kellhus became divine because he became serwes consort and or protector servant.  His divinity ended with her heart and he leveraged her divinity to enable that miracle.

It never had anything to do with kellhus, because it was serwe.

[Wilshire]

Yeah sure, I'm not debating the whole Serwe-is-everything bit. I just dont see how this scene is part of it.

Soldier didnt do any swirling, and he went to a knee so he could line up their genitals (he put her on her knees already). I've never gone about raping anyone, or seen or studied it, but it seems like he's just an excited dude getting laid. This guy is a peasent, probably only ever been with old whores with few teeth and sagging... everything. A breathless, giddy, and disorienting encounter is reasonable.

[mrganondorf]

First scene, yes it seems something odd is happening, within kellhus if nothing else.


As for the next, the only line that stands out might be "he said, his voice stricken, as though with reverence", but I dont interpret that the same way you do. Just a horny guy about to lay the hottest woman he has ever seen.

I see you fell for it, thinking what you're meant to think and not putting together the puzzle pieces as a result.  His reaction makes no sense within the context of the scene, but if you presume for him that the ground wheeled as it did for kellhus then it suggests more.  Akka was pretty disoriented by her fucking him as well...

Perhaps we are all fucking wrong. kellhus became divine because he became serwes consort and or protector servant.  His divinity ended with her heart and he leveraged her divinity to enable that miracle.

It never had anything to do with kellhus, because it was serwe.

that is awesome!  it's like Serwe is the Latter Latter Prophet!  perhaps the scripture of the future will only refer to Kellhus as "Serwe's Consort"

if it's true that Serwe believes so hard that it bends reality, maybe we will see her storm from the heavens to save Kellhus!  maybe Kellhus uses the Daimos to open a door for her, right at the worst topoi, the thinnest boundary--Golgotterath

[MSJ]

I really like the idea Locke has put forth. That Serwe is a template, so to say, so we can understand why Cnaüir is so integral to Moe's scene in Kyudea. Reallly, I'm posting this so Locke will come and expand on this. Wh I doesn't love a Locke theory post?

[Wilshire]

There is plenty around the forums about Serwe being the all-thing. I suspect we won't get much in the way of an answer until TUC or maybe TGO if we are lucky.
One can always hope locke will post again, but his attention is fleeting . Here's to hoping, MSJ.

[locke]

I think serwe as a template / Rosetta Stone to interpret cnaiur and moenghus relationship is probably a better explanation for bakers comments re serwe than any of my crackpots that serwe is the messiah/holy/chosen one etc. support of this is that cnaiur constantly thinks of serwe as a reflection of his younger self.


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[H]

Well, what is Serwe's "power" is as the prototypical believer.  In fact, so typical that she is one of the most powerful believers ever.  In Earwa, this actually translates to something of real power.  The "miracle" of the Circumfix is the transference to Kellhus of her power, that is, the belief-the-can-change-the-world.

I doubt if this is a new idea though and is possibly a derail of what you guys were talking about.

[geoffrobro]

during this reread i noticed Cnaiirs fetish for Norsirai women. His most loved wife was half Norsirai and i think this comes from Moe's manipulation of Cnaiir, sexual or not cnaiir loves the pale skin and blonde hair. Kellhus must of seen this and took Serwe and gave her what cnaiir could never give her, happiness and the feeling that you are greater then you appear. 

[Somnambulist]

Well, what is Serwe's "power" is as the prototypical believer.  In fact, so typical that she is one of the most powerful believers ever.  In Earwa, this actually translates to something of real power.  The "miracle" of the Circumfix is the transference to Kellhus of her power, that is, the belief-the-can-change-the-world.

I doubt if this is a new idea though and is possibly a derail of what you guys were talking about.

This.  I also think it has something to do with the analogy that one lamb is worth ten bulls (paraphrasing).  Serwe believed outright that Kellhus was (first) her own personal savior from Cnaiur, then (second) everyone's savior through his manipulations, etc.  So, Serwe being the seed of absolute belief in Kel's 'ascendancy', and Kel's subsequent knowing sacrifice of her through the circumfixion, raised the game.  He'd sacrificed a 'lamb' to forward his goals.  Do we know if anyone besides Serwe saw Kel's halos before the circumfixion?  Or only after?  I don't remember.

[geoffrobro]

Conphas' main general see them after Kellhus kills the 3 assassins. From the Generals POV it's says he places a haloed hand on his shoulder. He believe Kellhus is a true prophet

[Wilshire]

Conphas' main general see them after Kellhus kills the 3 assassins. From the Generals POV it's says he places a haloed hand on his shoulder. He believe Kellhus is a true prophet

Is it described as a haloed hand, or hallowed? Functionally similar in meaning, but I remember the passage as hallowed, which implies only that he thinks it holy but not specifically that it has halos.

Could be I just improperly read/remember it that way since hallowed made more sense at the time of my reading.