What do you believe? (Redux)

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TLEILAXU

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« Reply #135 on: February 23, 2018, 05:36:59 pm »
We addressed that in the Thorsten thread, see e.g. the last two pages of that thread http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=30.45
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 05:41:30 pm by TLEILAXU »

BeardFisher-King

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« Reply #136 on: February 23, 2018, 06:25:14 pm »
We're having a communication breakdown, unfortunately, Tleilaxu. When you use the phrase, "Free will is trivially false.", I read that to say "There is a trivial sense in which free will is false, but in a deeper sense, it is true." Which is not your view, unless I'm mistaken.

Do you see my point? Sorry to be annoying, but I'm just trying to understand.
"The heart of any other, because it has a will, would remain forever mysterious."

-from "Snow Falling On Cedars", by David Guterson

H

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« Reply #137 on: February 23, 2018, 06:28:11 pm »
It's exactly the other way around, i.e. stars and life increase entropy, but that's probably what you meant to say.

Yeah, I had my theoretical conception reversed in my head, because I wasn't thinking of entropy as temperature, rather I was conceptualizing ordered states, i.e. fusion making hydrogen into helium and the like, in a molecular sense, not regarding the obvious issue of the whole system...
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

TLEILAXU

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« Reply #138 on: February 23, 2018, 06:42:08 pm »
We're having a communication breakdown, unfortunately, Tleilaxu. When you use the phrase, "Free will is trivially false.", I read that to say "There is a trivial sense in which free will is false, but in a deeper sense, it is true." Which is not your view, unless I'm mistaken.

Do you see my point? Sorry to be annoying, but I'm just trying to understand.
What I meant to say is that trivially, there is no such thing as free will.

It's exactly the other way around, i.e. stars and life increase entropy, but that's probably what you meant to say.

Yeah, I had my theoretical conception reversed in my head, because I wasn't thinking of entropy as temperature, rather I was conceptualizing ordered states, i.e. fusion making hydrogen into helium and the like, in a molecular sense, not regarding the obvious issue of the whole system...
I think another nice way to look at it could be that the potential energy of the system is continually decreasing.

BeardFisher-King

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« Reply #139 on: February 23, 2018, 06:55:34 pm »
We're having a communication breakdown, unfortunately, Tleilaxu. When you use the phrase, "Free will is trivially false.", I read that to say "There is a trivial sense in which free will is false, but in a deeper sense, it is true." Which is not your view, unless I'm mistaken.

Do you see my point? Sorry to be annoying, but I'm just trying to understand.
What I meant to say is that trivially, there is no such thing as free will.
In short, the modifier "trivially" has no effect on the sentence, and your position is that there is no such thing as free will. Got it now, thanks.
"The heart of any other, because it has a will, would remain forever mysterious."

-from "Snow Falling On Cedars", by David Guterson

MSJ

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« Reply #140 on: February 23, 2018, 08:48:27 pm »
:Evil laughter: Dibs on Tleilaxu's soul in the Outside. Hahahahahahaha. Shit, ignorance is holy!
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,