The Relation of Ishterebinth, Sranc and Dagliash

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H

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« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2021, 02:31:34 pm »
And this is why I think that they didn't wait because there was nothing to wait for, meaning the Chorae are no longer needed and not just removed for the sake of a prospective Insertant.

It could be, but it could also be that they really did not fully understand why they were there, or discount the threat that Sorcery could ultimately pose to it.  They might well figure it doesn't matter, since most of the Sorcerers in the "known" world are now dead or dying.  What they don't (and likely could not) realize is that the Sorcery of Zeûm is really strong and that Meppa is not dead.

Ultimately we just can't know, we can only see if this is a sort of Chekov's Gun waiting to be used in some manner or other, or just a red herring.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

SmilerLoki

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« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2021, 02:33:09 pm »
Ultimately we just can't know, we can only see if this is a sort of Chekov's Gun waiting to be used in some manner or other, or just a red herring.
Agreed, but my money are currently on the Dunyain being clever.

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« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2021, 03:06:21 pm »
The Chorae Hoard was not part of the battle algebra last time. For whatever reason, the No-God's resumption causes the Whirlwind and the Mutilated could have accounted for Kellhus collecting the Chorae Hoard from Sakarpus and using it to break Golgotterath's Ward Walls.

The "first" time, the Whirlwind wasn't circulating most of the entire Chorae Hoard around the No-God.
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SmilerLoki

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« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2021, 03:25:40 pm »
That should in all likelihood decrease with time, since random collision events, not to mention the entire thing just can't be that stable (especially while also moving), 'cause, you know, physics.

H

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« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2021, 03:28:31 pm »
That should in all likelihood decrease with time, since random collision events, not to mention the entire thing just can't be that stable (especially while also moving), 'cause, you know, physics.

Physics?  This is Eärwa!

I mean, I am thinking this lack of Chorae is going to matter, but it definitely is unclear how or why.  Especially since I am holding fast to my "Mimara answers the No-God" prediction, of course.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

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« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2021, 10:51:43 pm »
Is it possible the nonmen leading the sranc army are from ishteribinth? the delegation that shows up to the ordeal says theyre surprised they survived. maybe they were in on it.

Also I never put this together, but it can't be a coincidence that they wanted kelhus to go to dagliash and there happened to be a crazy trap there, all while depriving him of his most trusted sorceress + 2. A very tidy trap now that I think on it.

The glossary states that the delegation was a "false emissary." Not that anyone needed proof that this was part of the trap, but that seems definitive.
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Wilshire

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« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2021, 01:35:20 pm »
Still not convinced.  I will try to put out my thoughts.  I'm erratic and in sore need of a reread.  If the Celmomian Prophesy is the basis for their "knowledge" of needing Kellhus as an insertant, they are making some intense cognitive leaps (which I guess maybe I can't be expected to understand, them being Dunyain and all).  All the prophesy says is an Anasurimbor will return at the end of the world.  I don't think there's any more to it, since we are shown the scene where Celmomas says it to Seswatha.  That's so vague, it could mean any of the many Anasurimbors running around, why decide on the most difficult to grab?

I would just like to say, yes 1000%.

So much weight is put onto the prophecy, both in the books and in discussion here/elsewhere. But the prophesy itself sucks. In all the iteration we get, it boils down to the section I bolded above. "An Anasurimbor" is the Harbinger of the end, the warning sign that the end is nigh.

If you allow for Kellhus being that Anasurimbor, which I think we aught, the prophecy is fulfilled once Kellhus shows up in the Three Seas halfway into TDTCB.

It most emphatically does not say that an Anasurimbor causes the end of the world.

Physics?  This is Eärwa!

I mean, I am thinking this lack of Chorae is going to matter, but it definitely is unclear how or why.  Especially since I am holding fast to my "Mimara answers the No-God" prediction, of course.
I agree that its more Gun than Herring. It seems a rather unnecessary red herring, and too strange a detail to just throw out there.

That said, they thought it was going to be Kellhus in there. Maybe hoping they could use some metagnosis translocation or something. Now that its Kelmomas who doesn't know any neat spells, it could be for naught and provide an avenue for defeat that wasn't available last time.

As I'm not sure the Heron Spear actually did anything last time, I do think its possible some kind of magic laser ballista scenario this time around with Akka pulling the trigger.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 04:55:48 pm by Wilshire »
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SmilerLoki

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« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2021, 07:41:07 pm »
It is possible that the No-God stopped functioning entirely by itself last time, enacting some time shenanigans of the kind that bridges the two iterations of the Apocalypse. Which would certainly explain the fact that the Second Apocalypse at least in some large scale respects closely mirrors the First (so far).

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« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2021, 11:22:09 am »
As I'm not sure the Heron Spear actually did anything last time, I do think its possible some kind of magic laser ballista scenario this time around with Akka pulling the trigger.

Well, there is that dream where Akka sees Anaxophus failing to "take up the Spear" and just parroting the No-God's words.  But it is totally unclear if that is a clear vision of the past, or a paranoids corruption of the true.  I guess one thing is that it leaves the Herron Spear well and open to be anything the narrative ends up wanting it to be though.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira

Wilshire

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« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2021, 03:30:37 pm »
As I'm not sure the Heron Spear actually did anything last time, I do think its possible some kind of magic laser ballista scenario this time around with Akka pulling the trigger.
Well, there is that dream where Akka sees Anaxophus failing to "take up the Spear" and just parroting the No-God's words.  But it is totally unclear if that is a clear vision of the past, or a paranoids corruption of the true.  I guess one thing is that it leaves the Herron Spear well and open to be anything the narrative ends up wanting it to be though.
Yeah at this point in time, we know that Bakker is not entirely sure of all the exact details of TNG even as he finished TUC. This could be something he left open to decide later if he needed/wanted to use it.

« Last Edit: June 18, 2021, 04:07:12 pm by H »
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