Who destroyed the [spoiler] monastery?

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Madness

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« Reply #195 on: March 01, 2016, 03:51:26 pm »
Please, raise dead threads all you like, citizensnips :).

Also, welcome to the Second Apocalypse, officially (though, it looks like you've been registered for time).
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Blackstone

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« Reply #196 on: March 01, 2016, 04:07:22 pm »
Thread necro, and this is probably directly contradicted by a passage in an earlier book but....maybe Ishual is just like that?

It's a 2,000+ year old castle. Given their rules about staying in one place and their (presumably) small population pool, it seems unlikely the Dûnyain would have the resources and expertise to maintain such a large structure. Especially if they destroyed any magic runes or such that might have been propping it up. Maybe they just live around and below the ruin.

Ha! That's a good point. But I don't feel like that's the case. Kellhus turns to look at Ishual as he is leaving, but I don't remember if there was a description.

I think Kellhus destroyed it (probably all by himself). I think anything else would be too coincidental to be good writing on Scott's part.
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Wilshire

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« Reply #197 on: March 01, 2016, 04:15:17 pm »
Thread necro, and this is probably directly contradicted by a passage in an earlier book but....maybe Ishual is just like that?

It's a 2,000+ year old castle. Given their rules about staying in one place and their (presumably) small population pool, it seems unlikely the Dûnyain would have the resources and expertise to maintain such a large structure. Especially if they destroyed any magic runes or such that might have been propping it up. Maybe they just live around and below the ruin.

Ha! That's a good point. But I don't feel like that's the case. Kellhus turns to look at Ishual as he is leaving, but I don't remember if there was a description.

I couldn't find the quote (thought it was in this thread somewhere...) he Kellhus turns around once as he leaves Ishual and watches those on the wall leave the ramparts. Its definitely not in shambles when he walks out. It was destroyed sometime between when he turned around and when Akka/Mim finally find it.
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« Reply #198 on: March 01, 2016, 04:22:22 pm »
Yeah, the most probable culprit is Kellhus himself.  If the Consult couldn't find it in 2000 years, I have doubts they'd find it in 20.

Why he would have destroyed it is a whole different issue.  To deny Akka questioning the ones left there?  Then why let Akka find the map?  Then again, it could be something deeper, like Kellhus setting up what Akka will find.  Could all be drawing out what Seswatha is guiding Akka towards...
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« Reply #199 on: March 01, 2016, 05:00:34 pm »
Yeah, the most probable culprit is Kellhus himself.  If the Consult couldn't find it in 2000 years, I have doubts they'd find it in 20.

Why he would have destroyed it is a whole different issue.  To deny Akka questioning the ones left there?  Then why let Akka find the map?  Then again, it could be something deeper, like Kellhus setting up what Akka will find.  Could all be drawing out what Seswatha is guiding Akka towards...

I agree. And if they found the map in the coffers, why read it and then leave it there for someone else.

I mentioned this in another thread. I suspect that through the probability trance, Kellhus surmised that the Dunyain would be exposed to the outside world during the SA. Dunyain, in order to master circumstance, would learn magic. They would then embrace the Consult to prevent their damnation (the precise reason Kellhus had to stop his father at the end of TTT). I think it was a risk he wasn't willing to take.
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« Reply #200 on: March 01, 2016, 05:06:18 pm »
Yeah, the most probable culprit is Kellhus himself.  If the Consult couldn't find it in 2000 years, I have doubts they'd find it in 20.

Why he would have destroyed it is a whole different issue.  To deny Akka questioning the ones left there?  Then why let Akka find the map?  Then again, it could be something deeper, like Kellhus setting up what Akka will find.  Could all be drawing out what Seswatha is guiding Akka towards...

I agree. And if they found the map in the coffers, why read it and then leave it there for someone else.

I mentioned this in another thread. I suspect that through the probability trance, Kellhus surmised that the Dunyain would be exposed to the outside world during the SA. Dunyain, in order to master circumstance, would learn magic. They would then embrace the Consult to prevent their damnation (the precise reason Kellhus had to stop his father at the end of TTT). I think it was a risk he wasn't willing to take.

Yeah, I could see that.  Also, if we consider that Kellhus is probably the pinnacle of what the Dunyain sought to attain, there it no real benefit to having them any more.

In reality though, if Kellhus killed them it was probably mostly to suffer no rivals (same reason why he killed Moe).

Not that it's relevant to this thread, but I still do wonder if the collective might of the Siqu would be a match for Kellhus...
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Wilshire

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« Reply #201 on: March 01, 2016, 06:55:25 pm »
Yeah when they monks aren't all sitting around meditating, they are forced by their own conditioning to control all circumstances around them. Kellhus would want more Dunyain getting in his way as much as the Consult want more Dunyain to fight against.
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citizensnips

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« Reply #202 on: March 01, 2016, 09:56:20 pm »
Please, raise dead threads all you like, citizensnips :).

Also, welcome to the Second Apocalypse, officially (though, it looks like you've been registered for time).

Thanks. I was doing a reread of the series before the next book comes out and I for some reason I couldn't get a new account to register. Then I ended up trying an old email address and I found this account I made a couple years ago and never used...

I couldn't find the quote (thought it was in this thread somewhere...) he Kellhus turns around once as he leaves Ishual and watches those on the wall leave the ramparts. Its definitely not in shambles when he walks out. It was destroyed sometime between when he turned around and when Akka/Mim finally find it.

Yeah, I figured that it was unlikely. It has gotten me thinking about the logistics of Dûnyain society though.

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« Reply #203 on: March 01, 2016, 11:12:29 pm »
Please, raise dead threads all you like, citizensnips :).

Also, welcome to the Second Apocalypse, officially (though, it looks like you've been registered for time).

Thanks. I was doing a reread of the series before the next book comes out and I for some reason I couldn't get a new account to register. Then I ended up trying an old email address and I found this account I made a couple years ago and never used...

Unfortunately, we have basically the worst system of registration ever due to the abnormal amount of Spam-Sranc baying at the Gates. Wilshire and I manually approve members and sometimes new registers get lost in the shuffle. Probably we'll have to modify our SOP to "Approving and E-mailing" new members because otherwise, there is no clear demarcation as to when a new register perceives that they can post.

Glad you found your way despite our ineptitude ;).
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citizensnips

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« Reply #204 on: March 02, 2016, 09:14:55 pm »
Well the important thing is that I'm here and can finally write down all my half baked theories!


MSJ

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« Reply #205 on: March 03, 2016, 02:32:01 pm »
Welcome citizensnips!

Yea, I've always been of the opinion that Kellhus has destroyed Ishual. I have had thoughts that Seswatha is behind the Dunyain and when Kellhus left Ishual they destroyed the place and moved to another location to be used when the SA is at hand. But, that's me cooking up half baked ideas. No, Kellhus destroying Ishual because he doesn't want the competition seems the most likely scenario. That, or the Consult found the map and destroyed it. Take your pick.
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Wilshire

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« Reply #206 on: March 03, 2016, 03:12:45 pm »
I always love the of irony of the idea that Akka's fight with Wuteat led the dragon to return to golgotterath, where it passed over a random castle mountain that it burned to the ground before went on its way to Golgotterath.

One of the chapter headers from the beginning goes something like "like a hunter in thicket, the act of searching extinguishing your chance to find prey".
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Blackstone

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« Reply #207 on: March 03, 2016, 03:20:27 pm »
I always love the of irony of the idea that Akka's fight with Wuteat led the dragon to return to golgotterath, where it passed over a random castle mountain that it burned to the ground before went on its way to Golgotterath.

One of the chapter headers from the beginning goes something like "like a hunter in thicket, the act of searching extinguishing your chance to find prey".

Ha ha ha. I always liked that idea too.
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citizensnips

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« Reply #208 on: March 03, 2016, 04:43:12 pm »
That or Leweth actually survived and went back to take his vengeance on Kellhus' old friends. Either or. 

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« Reply #209 on: March 03, 2016, 04:59:03 pm »
That or Leweth actually survived and went back to take his vengeance on Kellhus' old friends. Either or. 

Continuing in a line of less probable things, there is the chance that Mek backtracked Kellhus to there, they killed everyone just for the hell of it.  Pretty sure Madness thought of that at the very beginning of this thread actually.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira