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Messages - profgrape

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16
The No-God / Re: Will Akka and co even make it back to the TS?
« on: May 29, 2018, 07:28:44 pm »
Or the right motivation ... TNG on your tail may well spark the creative juices and next thing you know you're back in TTS. Kellhus figured it out facing down 3 Cishaurim.

If this is going to be a "figure out your superpowers via immediate threat" kind of situation, I think Sranc are more likely than the actual No-God. Unless, of course, they do decide to go straight to a densely populated area, which doesn't seem to be the best choice, as has been discussed.
The Gnosis doesn't strike me as the sort of thing that you discover as much as something that's studied.  The idea of spontaneously gaining new powers in times of stress is more in line with the Psukhe.  Although now that I think about it, Akka stumbling on the Psukhe sounds really cool... :-)

I'm guessing that by the time Kellhus first utters the Cant of Translocation to teleport from Kyudea toward Shimeh, he'd already worked out the mechanics.  The Cant of Calling (basis for the CoT) is the first thing he insists Akka teach him.  And during the same session, he asks about the second inutteral.    So he had a few months to ponder at least.

17
The No-God / Re: Will Akka and co even make it back to the TS?
« on: May 29, 2018, 05:40:55 pm »
A bad idea for sure.  But perhaps the least bad given the alternatives?

@H that's an excellent point about not having the Ordeal to draw the Sranc.  While a big chunk of the Norsorai Sranc population died at Dagliash, there are I'm sure plenty of them left, especially along the Demua mountains. 

Short of a deus ex machina (Zeumi corsairs searching for their prince, for example), the only thing I could imagine is that Akka and co shadow the Scylvendi back, perhaps with the Excursi in tow?  Or one of the Forsaken teaches Akka how to weave a Gateway.

Hey, when you're in the middle of an Apocalypse, "least bad" is pretty much the same as "good".

There are just so many Sranc around Eärwa that even accounting for a) those killed by the Ordeal and b) those that the No-God will take along to wreck cities, there will likely still be more than enough around to pose a significant threat.

Or maybe Akka suddenly realizes he had the power of the Metagnosis all along. (Seswatha power boost?) For a deus ex machina, it's not a completely implausible one...

Or Dream-Kellhus teaches him the Metagnosis?  But is this even possible?  As far as we know, only Kellhus, Serwa and Saccarees have successfully cast a Metagnostic Cant -- a Dunyain prodigy, a half-Dunyain prodigy and a human prodigy.  Akka's an accomplished sorcerer in his own right (a War Cant master or something) so maybe he could grasp the Metagnosis if he has the right teacher?

18
The No-God / Re: Will Akka and co even make it back to the TS?
« on: May 29, 2018, 03:49:11 pm »
Or one of the Forsaken teaches Akka how to weave a Gateway.
And then gets mysteriously killed so we can speculate about that endlessly?
"...you?"

19
The No-God / Re: Will Akka and co even make it back to the TS?
« on: May 29, 2018, 03:36:27 pm »
Well, I'd think it would be nearly impossible for Akka, Mimara, Esmenet and the baby to foot-slog it all the way back, now that there is no Ordeal to draw the Sranc to it.  It would also be a bad idea to try to cut through Scylvendi territory.  So, I think it will have to either be a deus ex machina to get them out, or that they somehow carve out a hiding somewhere they can get to.  The last option would probably be finding some actual people along the coast who would sail them south.

For the time being at least, hiding seems like the best option. The No-God is not that likely to get to them if they stay away from densely populated areas. (Of course, they can't do so forever...)
I'd think that most of the capable Scylvendi warriors were with Cnaiür and would currently still be away from their territory (the ones that are still alive, that is)...but it'd still be a bad idea for Akka and co. to go through the Steppe, yes.

A bad idea for sure.  But perhaps the least bad given the alternatives?

@H that's an excellent point about not having the Ordeal to draw the Sranc.  While a big chunk of the Norsorai Sranc population died at Dagliash, there are I'm sure plenty of them left, especially along the Demua mountains. 

Short of a deus ex machina (Zeumi corsairs searching for their prince, for example), the only thing I could imagine is that Akka and co shadow the Scylvendi back, perhaps with the Excursi in tow?  Or one of the Forsaken teaches Akka how to weave a Gateway.

20
The No-God / Will Akka and co even make it back to the TS?
« on: May 25, 2018, 09:27:53 pm »
At some point, Bakker described Atrithau as something we'll visit in future books.  Which now means TNG.  And given the parallels between Akka and Seswatha's roles in their respective Apocolypses, if we ever see Atrithau it seems like it would be through Akka's eyes. 

I could see Esme and Mimara will end up crossing the Leash, skirting the Demua mountains (perhaps picking up a certain crab-handed boy along the way) and heading for Atrithau. 

Of course, Atrithau will be in chaos.  Their king was killed by Cnaiur and the Scylvendi at the Battle of Eels just a few months prior to the NG's advent.  And like Seswatha, Akka will come in and fail spectacularly at rallying the troops.

The question of where they go next is where things get interesting.

If they want to head for the Three Seas, they'd either have to cross the Jiunati Steppe (which might be fine as the Scylvendi warriors are elsewhere) or head for the pass into Galeoth -- both treacherous options.   But would Esme even want to do that after witnessing the empire's literal collapse in Momemn?  Wouldn't they want to head someplace where they could at least mount some sort of resistance? 

Instead of the TS, they might leave Atrithau, head south, skirt west of the Sea of Jorua and then cross the unnamed tributary into High Holy Zeum!

21
The No-God / Re: Kellhus and the Dreams - what could it lead to?
« on: May 24, 2018, 11:13:48 pm »
I could see Kellhus having manipulated the Dreams such that was positioned to lead the final resistance in case Kellhus failed at Golgotterath.  And similarly, I could see the Dreams shifting to Kellhus.  Which would be all kinds of amazing as it could reveal tidbits of other things Kellhus had done as a backup plan.

Now that I thinking about it a bit, it would be amazing to start TNG with a Dream.  Akka is Kellhus and sowing oats with Esme.  Then he wakes up to see both Esme and Mimara lying on the ground in Agongorea. 

22
The No-God / Re: Will the Mutilated step out of the shadows?
« on: May 24, 2018, 10:44:03 pm »
Well, also Bakker did say he was leaning toward the next series being written more like The Sags rather than how the rest of the books were.  I take that to mean less first-person perspectives, so if we do "see" them, it is probably only glimpses of them from afar.
Actually, if we take it at face value and imagine something along the lines of the Silmarillion, then I'm worried about his readership. A narrative structure of this kind doesn't seem to engage contemporary readers.
I had the same reaction.  As much as I like the stories Bakker tells, what I really love is the way he tells them.  And so much of that comes down to perspective -- seeing things through the characters' eyes. 

Yet it might also be that he meant that the books might be structured around shorter, more self-contained arcs.  As Esme notes in TTT, the through line for the Sagas was Seswatha -- he'd appear and disappear and played a number of different roles.  So I could imagine something where there are a lot of new POV's that experience TSA with Akka and his ragtag band as the through line. 

23
The No-God / Re: Will the Mutilated step out of the shadows?
« on: May 23, 2018, 08:23:54 pm »
Quote from:  profgrape
]Love this.  Akka’s divergent Dreams were never explained. Which could make them something RSB was deliberately holding back.  I could see the revelation happening via Kellhus’ perspective?  Or even Kelmomas’?

Well, in the Q&A here, when asked about what happened when Kellhus "spoke" to Seswatha, Bakker said that was off limits. So, id assume he has a plan for it.

ETA: Profgrape, why would you think we would experience these dreams through Kelmommas? There is no more Kelmommas, imho. He is the No-God now. He is apart from the Outside. Matter of fact, he is the Tekne in its greatest form. I don't see how that would even be a possibility. Just wondering what makes you think that a possibility.

That's a good point, MSJ. 

I was thinking about the parallel between Subjects Nau-Cayuti and Kelmomas.  NC was the device to reveal the IF and the Object, perhaps Kelmomas could do the same for others?


24
The No-God / Re: Will the Mutilated step out of the shadows?
« on: May 23, 2018, 06:36:02 pm »
In another thread I posited the idea of Kellhus returning in the Dreams as a means of control of circumstance beyond death. This could be how the Mandate and Swayali learn of the Mutilated (and of course, Achamian will Dream him first).

Love this.  Akka’s divergent Dreams were never explained. Which could make them something RSB was deliberately holding back.  I could see the revelation happening via Kellhus’ perspective?  Or even Kelmomas’?

25
The No-God / Re: Will the Mutilated step out of the shadows?
« on: May 23, 2018, 06:06:12 pm »
Gnosis? I thought it was implied that Kellhus was unique among them in that regard... delivered to the Tekne vs delivered to the Gnosis (and Daimos)?

One of the Mutilated uses sorcery.  Which I assumed was the Gnosis (taught by Mek or other Nonmen) although it totally could be Anagogis. 

26
The No-God / Will the Mutilated step out of the shadows?
« on: May 23, 2018, 03:42:23 pm »
The Mutilated (RSB's "Cenobites) are pretty badass as far as "big bads" go.  They're far smarter than humans, have a massive army led by the NG and the Gnosis.  They are, in almost every way, more formidable than Shae, Mek, Aurang and Aurax. 

Yet aside from the horde of Skin Spies (one of whom salted Kellhus and will hopefully be getting a sweet end-of-year bonus) and Aurax, their existence is AFAWK a secret. 

The question I'm pondering is whether they'll become more visible in TNG, effectively "announcing their presence".  Because absent them doing so, I'm not sure how humanity would ever discover the truth. 

Thoughts?

27
I know this thread has drifted a bit but my nominee for "worst fate" is...

...Nameless Dude in Unmasking Room Who Was Used to Train Young Kellhus

Just seems so so so boring.
Excuse me, pragma Meigon is not unnamed.
Lol.  I was actually referring to the dude whose face is opened up to study.

28
I know this thread has drifted a bit but my nominee for "worst fate" is...

...Nameless Dude in Unmasking Room Who Was Used to Train Young Kellhus

Just seems so so so boring. 




29
The Unholy Consult / Re: Is Earwa doomed?
« on: October 27, 2017, 06:59:00 pm »
Quote from:  profgrape
Of course, "belief in humanity" could mean an ending where "And thus the One-Hundred Forty-Four Thousand began the work of rebuilding humanity in a Meaningless world."

Not what I was going for, but ok, I get your humor.
I'm only semi-joking here; I honestly could see Bakker defining "a happy ending" as a hard reset of human existence. 

In my dream-world, the resistance to the NG is led by the Zeumi (persons of color) and the women of the Three-Seas.  What happens in Bakker's dream world, however, remains to be seen... :-)

30
The Unholy Consult / Re: Is Earwa doomed?
« on: October 27, 2017, 03:59:14 pm »
In along for the journey, no matter what. But, I wholeheartedly agree with that blogger that Bakker does believe in humanity and will use the last series to show that.

Of course, "belief in humanity" could mean an ending where "And thus the One-Hundred Forty-Four Thousand began the work of rebuilding humanity in a Meaningless world."

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