[Madness]

Time is a flat circle.

[profgrape]

Dear Madness,

A circle *is* flat.

Love,
A Sphere

[Blackstone]

Will Cnaiur be able to lead the Scylvendi against the GO once it becomes apparent that Proyas is now in command? Cnaiur doesn't seem to have any great love for the Consult, or any particular allegiance to their war, he just wants War.
In rereading/listening to the PoN, it's clear the Cnaiur seems to have genuine feelings of affection for Proyas (saves him in the desert, tells Akka to warn him about Kellhus, etc) and now Proyas is on the path to no longer believing in Kellhus as a god, and at the head of an army which for all intents and purposes is on a collision course with the People of War. Did Kellhus foresee this? Is this why he left, to allow an alliance of the two? Just a thought.

[Madness]

Dear Madness,

A circle *is* flat.

Love,
A Sphere

Lol - well, you tell that to the writer of True Detectives .

Will Cnaiur be able to lead the Scylvendi against the GO once it becomes apparent that Proyas is now in command? Cnaiur doesn't seem to have any great love for the Consult, or any particular allegiance to their war, he just wants War.
In rereading/listening to the PoN, it's clear the Cnaiur seems to have genuine feelings of affection for Proyas (saves him in the desert, tells Akka to warn him about Kellhus, etc) and now Proyas is on the path to no longer believing in Kellhus as a god, and at the head of an army which for all intents and purposes is on a collision course with the People of War. Did Kellhus foresee this? Is this why he left, to allow an alliance of the two? Just a thought.

Supposing that Serwa, Sorweel, and Moenghus make it back to the Ordeal with the Nonmen, a real father and son reunion is likely too.

So many cool character interactions possible in TUC.

[profgrape]

Any ideas on how the Scylvendi plan on making it to Golgatterath?  Or, for that matter, Akka and Mimara?  Ford the Leash? 

[Blackstone]

Any ideas on how the Scylvendi plan on making it to Golgatterath?  Or, for that matter, Akka and Mimara?  Ford the Leash?

Well, Akka and Mimara can walk the echo of the ground across the leash if she'll ditch her chorae. But if I had to guess, I'd say they'll build a raft.

I'd guess it won't be a problem for the Scylvendi. They're on horses, are skilled hunters, and don't need to worry about sranc, so they can just loop up around the sea.

[Somnambulist]

Any ideas on how the Scylvendi plan on making it to Golgatterath?  Or, for that matter, Akka and Mimara?  Ford the Leash?

Well, Akka and Mimara can walk the echo of the ground across the leash if she'll ditch her chorae. But if I had to guess, I'd say they'll build a raft.

I'd guess it won't be a problem for the Scylvendi. They're on horses, are skilled hunters, and don't need to worry about sranc, so they can just loop up around the sea.

That seems like it would take a really long time, even without resistance and on horseback.  The GO is on Golgotterath's doorstep.  My money is on crossing the Leash.  That being said, they'd need ships.  The Leash isn't portrayed as a 'normal' river on the maps.  I doubt there's anything close to a ford, it simply looks too wide.

[profgrape]

Any ideas on how the Scylvendi plan on making it to Golgatterath?  Or, for that matter, Akka and Mimara?  Ford the Leash?

Well, Akka and Mimara can walk the echo of the ground across the leash if she'll ditch her chorae. But if I had to guess, I'd say they'll build a raft.

I'd guess it won't be a problem for the Scylvendi. They're on horses, are skilled hunters, and don't need to worry about sranc, so they can just loop up around the sea.

That seems like it would take a really long time, even without resistance and on horseback.  The GO is on Golgotterath's doorstep.  My money is on crossing the Leash.  That being said, they'd need ships.  The Leash isn't portrayed as a 'normal' river on the maps.  I doubt there's anything close to a ford, it simply looks too wide.

I guess since they're working for the Consult, it wouldn't be such a surprise if they've made arrangements for ships to cross the Leash.

The whole "ships" thing makes me wonder if there isn't a reserve fleet on it's way from the TS to spell the ordeal once they've reached Golgatterath.

[Blackstone]

Any ideas on how the Scylvendi plan on making it to Golgatterath?  Or, for that matter, Akka and Mimara?  Ford the Leash?

Well, Akka and Mimara can walk the echo of the ground across the leash if she'll ditch her chorae. But if I had to guess, I'd say they'll build a raft.

I'd guess it won't be a problem for the Scylvendi. They're on horses, are skilled hunters, and don't need to worry about sranc, so they can just loop up around the sea.

That seems like it would take a really long time, even without resistance and on horseback.  The GO is on Golgotterath's doorstep.  My money is on crossing the Leash.  That being said, they'd need ships.  The Leash isn't portrayed as a 'normal' river on the maps.  I doubt there's anything close to a ford, it simply looks too wide.

It looks like a strait to me and probably miles across, so I agree there's no way to ford it. And the Scylvendi are the furthest thing from sailors imaginable.

Tactically, it would make sense for them to go up and around the sea. They'd be hitting the GO in the rear as they tried to assault Golgotterath.

[H]

It looks like a strait to me and probably miles across, so I agree there's no way to ford it. And the Scylvendi are the furthest thing from sailors imaginable.

Tactically, it would make sense for them to go up and around the sea. They'd be hitting the GO in the rear as they tried to assault Golgotterath.

I was turning over posibilties in my head and while riding all the way around the Neleost is possible, it seems like it would just take too long.  But it is possible, it seemed like an awfully long distance from Sauglish to Ishual, yet Mim and Akka walked it pretty quick (no way they walked faster than a horse).

Another option is that the Consult build a bridge for them, or that one already exists that we just don't know about.  I mean, it sure does look wide though.

[Blackstone]

It looks like a strait to me and probably miles across, so I agree there's no way to ford it. And the Scylvendi are the furthest thing from sailors imaginable.

Tactically, it would make sense for them to go up and around the sea. They'd be hitting the GO in the rear as they tried to assault Golgotterath.

I was turning over posibilties in my head and while riding all the way around the Neleost is possible, it seems like it would just take too long.  But it is possible, it seemed like an awfully long distance from Sauglish to Ishual, yet Mim and Akka walked it pretty quick (no way they walked faster than a horse).

Another option is that the Consult build a bridge for them, or that one already exists that we just don't know about.  I mean, it sure does look wide though.

I just can't imagine there is a bridge. Kuniuri was a bronze age society, and 2000 years have passed. Does the Consult have a workforce skilled enough to build a bridge that long? It seems unlikely.
If the Consult had some means of conveying the entire Scylvendi horde across the Leash, I feel like we would have seen it by now (of course we had no inkling of the nuke). And I can't imagine the nonmen ferrying them across in some way.

Edit - this is being discussed in the Dagliash thread: The GO may not have a way to penetrate the Ark. If that's true, the Consult can just sit back and wait the extra time it will take the Scylvendi to get around the Neleost and smash into the Ordeal.

[Somnambulist]

So, I think there are pretty good arguments for either approach to getting the Scylvendi into position to attack the GO.  As far as going around the Neleost, there would be several disadvantages, the way I see it.  One: time.  The GO is busting ass to get to Golgotterath before winter sets in.  If the Scylvendi are meant to attack them soonish, I'm not sure they could get around before deep winter hits.  They would probably be delayed until spring, which would probably be too late for Golgotterath if they were needed as reinforcements.  Two: at some point, they will encounter the denuded land that both the Horde and the GO trampled over and decimated.  They would have no food or forage, and wouldn't necessarily have a Horde of sranc to eat to sustain them.  Additionally, they would probably run into that situation as winter is setting in, making forage even more difficult.

On the other hand, Cnaiur was one of the principals in the Holy War that supervised the crossing of the entire army across the Sempis, arguably one of the greatest rivers in the Three Seas.  I also don't think there's a bridge over The Leash, but surely he, of all Scylvendi, could orchestrate such a crossing with great rafts, barges, ferries, something of the like.  He didn't seem to have any compunctions about crossing water, as he did it many times on scouting raids and such, before the Holy War actually crossed.  I imagine the Consult would employ Quya to keep the things steady and/or to propel them across the water.  Similar to Kellhus' Raft, but arguably easier since these would be floating on water, and not in the air.

I think my two cents were spent long ago. 

[H]

I just can't imagine there is a bridge. Kuniuri was a bronze age society, and 2000 years have passed. Does the Consult have a workforce skilled enough to build a bridge that long? It seems unlikely.
If the Consult had some means of conveying the entire Scylvendi horde across the Leash, I feel like we would have seen it by now (of course we had no inkling of the nuke). And I can't imagine the nonmen ferrying them across in some way.

Improbable, yes, but not impossible.  Access to soggomant would kind of allow them to make anything damn near indestructible.  Did they bother to though?  Probably not.

Edit - this is being discussed in the Dagliash thread: The GO may not have a way to penetrate the Ark. If that's true, the Consult can just sit back and wait the extra time it will take the Scylvendi to get around the Neleost and smash into the Ordeal.

Indeed, this is the most likely answer.  Question I am now thinking of though, is if Kellhus could pick up a navy and toss it at a city, could he pick up the Ark and flip it over?  Or toss it?

I imagine the Consult would employ Quya to keep the things steady and/or to propel them across the water.  Similar to Kellhus' Raft, but arguably easier since these would be floating on water, and not in the air.

Hmm, this has me wondering, the Quya that the Consult employed, were they from Golgotterath or Ishterebinth?  Because if they were from the latter, they might all be dead now...

[Blackstone]

So, I think there are pretty good arguments for either approach to getting the Scylvendi into position to attack the GO.  As far as going around the Neleost, there would be several disadvantages, the way I see it.  One: time.  The GO is busting ass to get to Golgotterath before winter sets in.  If the Scylvendi are meant to attack them soonish, I'm not sure they could get around before deep winter hits.  They would probably be delayed until spring, which would probably be too late for Golgotterath if they were needed as reinforcements.  Two: at some point, they will encounter the denuded land that both the Horde and the GO trampled over and decimated.  They would have no food or forage, and wouldn't necessarily have a Horde of sranc to eat to sustain them.  Additionally, they would probably run into that situation as winter is setting in, making forage even more difficult.

On the other hand, Cnaiur was one of the principals in the Holy War that supervised the crossing of the entire army across the Sempis, arguably one of the greatest rivers in the Three Seas.  I also don't think there's a bridge over The Leash, but surely he, of all Scylvendi, could orchestrate such a crossing with great rafts, barges, ferries, something of the like.  He didn't seem to have any compunctions about crossing water, as he did it many times on scouting raids and such, before the Holy War actually crossed.  I imagine the Consult would employ Quya to keep the things steady and/or to propel them across the water.  Similar to Kellhus' Raft, but arguably easier since these would be floating on water, and not in the air.

I think my two cents were spent long ago. 

You make some really good points. Lack of forage and winter setting in would be a huge problem. On the other hand, and maybe the scale of the map is off, but as I look at it, it seems the leash is wide enough that you couldn't see across it, and that seems like a tall order for rafts packed with horses and men. They'd be fighting the tide too. Perhaps it narrows considerably in places, and in that case, I am sure they can figure something out.

I just can't imagine there is a bridge. Kuniuri was a bronze age society, and 2000 years have passed. Does the Consult have a workforce skilled enough to build a bridge that long? It seems unlikely.
If the Consult had some means of conveying the entire Scylvendi horde across the Leash, I feel like we would have seen it by now (of course we had no inkling of the nuke). And I can't imagine the nonmen ferrying them across in some way.

Improbable, yes, but not impossible.  Access to soggomant would kind of allow them to make anything damn near indestructible.  Did they bother to though?  Probably not.

They have access to it, but not an unlimited supply. It's not a metal that originated on Earwa, and they'd be unlikely to strip away so much that it weakened the Arc.

Hmm, this has me wondering, the Quya that the Consult employed, were they from Golgotterath or Ishterebinth?  Because if they were from the latter, they might all be dead now...

My assumption was both.

[Wilshire]

Indeed, this is the most likely answer.  Question I am now thinking of though, is if Kellhus could pick up a navy and toss it at a city, could he pick up the Ark and flip it over?  Or toss it?

Kellhus channeling Yoda in Degobah... Except instead of a swamp, its Mordor, and instead of a puny ship its an Arc the size of Mt.Doom.  So basically steroids Yoda in Middle Earth ... or maybe just Starkiller and the Destoryer, a much cleaner analogy.

As for Scylvendi, I'm thinking across the Leash. Magical support conveyance - most probably rafts of some sort. The hike around seems too vast, would take too long.

Granted, given the flimsy timeline, who knows what time of year it actually is. The Ordeal might still be on its way to Dagliash, even though the bomb already went off.... Or something. That's the problem with broken timelines, hard to keep things straight.

I think the Consult learn remarkably quickly. Them seeing Kellhus' little trick with the raft might have dire consequences later for the Ordeal.