Big question about the consult's intentions.

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TLEILAXU

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« Reply #60 on: August 30, 2017, 04:29:12 pm »
Sounds way too far fetched imo. I believe they clearly believed Kellhus to be the No-God, and Kel's short-circuiting of the manifested God was a fortuitous event. This kinda brings me back to the thing where Kellhus says to Proyas that at some point the Inchoroi must win. It seems that by virtue of being outside of Eternity, the No-God is causally fated to manifest and succeed.

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« Reply #61 on: August 30, 2017, 05:19:36 pm »
I actually think Kelmomas arrives in the Golden Room when the Skin-Spies start creeping up - The Golden Room which, hot fucking damn, is a goddamn sorceress labyrinth far exceeding the Thousand Halls or Nonman Room of Endless Ingress or whatever.

Kelmomas just happens to arrive with the Esmenet Skin-Spy at that point and he's talking to Samarmas when he talks about figuring out that the Gods can't see him.
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Cüréthañ

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« Reply #62 on: August 30, 2017, 08:19:23 pm »
You really think the Mutilated let an Anasûrimbor (even an eight year old one) run around the heart of the Ark doing whatever he wants? Wow.
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ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #63 on: August 30, 2017, 09:00:29 pm »
I actually think Kelmomas arrives in the Golden Room when the Skin-Spies start creeping up - The Golden Room which, hot fucking damn, is a goddamn sorceress labyrinth far exceeding the Thousand Halls or Nonman Room of Endless Ingress or whatever.

Kelmomas just happens to arrive with the Esmenet Skin-Spy at that point and he's talking to Samarmas when he talks about figuring out that the Gods can't see him.

I agree with this, it's unlikely he had time to be interviewed by the Mutilated at all, even with the actual timeline of events being uncertain at some points.


You really think the Mutilated let an Anasûrimbor (even an eight year old one) run around the heart of the Ark doing whatever he wants? Wow.

One more reason to think he wasn't there for that long. Released himself from the chains, met with the skin-spy, went into the Ark, maybe stopped for a while to hit Serwa with that 100th Chorae (just a theory, but not unproven either), reached the Golden Room.
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TaoHorror

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« Reply #64 on: August 30, 2017, 09:07:29 pm »
Ooooh, Thelli - I love your thinking! I think you're right, Kel was the 100th Chorae ( Serwa didn't make a mistake ).
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gtownwr

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« Reply #65 on: August 30, 2017, 09:39:22 pm »
Why? The No-God was called the prosthesis of the Ark. Oar for the Ark. Seems pretty clear.
I agree. Oars are referred to as (driving) parts of the Ark, the No-God is the prosthesis of the Ark at a time when its original Oars are no longer operational. Considering the terms given in the narrative, it's hard to ascribe the word another meaning.

The Horde of the No-God is never referred to as the Oar, and it was talked about in the narrative for ages.

I agree that the Oar is referring to the No-God, but its pretty aggravating that even when answering questions, RSB answers using a term that has never been applied to anything else in the book and so causes more confusion.  I know he is all into philosophy and uncertainty, but his tendency to be unable to even answer a straightforward question in a straightforward many has frustrated me several times.

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« Reply #66 on: August 30, 2017, 09:46:00 pm »
Yep, just wandered in through the endless tunnels, caught the elevator up 100 floors (pausing to kill his sister in the midst of combat ofc), straight to the golden room where a skin spy receptionist says, "The Consult are I'm a meeting, you'll have to wait." But no, just use eye beams to disintergrate that, waltz in and cause havoc. Mutilated are all like "wtf, skin spy 10056, you could have let us know. Lol, nvm, this is how conditioned ground works of course Lolol. 12D benjuka, Winning!"

All clear to me now, thanks.
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« Reply #67 on: August 30, 2017, 09:47:48 pm »
I agree that the Oar is referring to the No-God, but its pretty aggravating that even when answering questions, RSB answers using a term that has never been applied to anything else in the book and so causes more confusion.  I know he is all into philosophy and uncertainty, but his tendency to be unable to even answer a straightforward question in a straightforward many has frustrated me several times.
I actually think here he answered in a way that was completely obvious to him, but forgot it isn't to us.

gtownwr

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« Reply #68 on: August 30, 2017, 09:53:57 pm »
I agree that the Oar is referring to the No-God, but its pretty aggravating that even when answering questions, RSB answers using a term that has never been applied to anything else in the book and so causes more confusion.  I know he is all into philosophy and uncertainty, but his tendency to be unable to even answer a straightforward question in a straightforward many has frustrated me several times.
I actually think here he answered in a way that was completely obvious to him, but forgot it isn't to us.

Definitely possible, but if so, that happens A LOT.  It is a weakness of the series in my opinion that a significant portion ("a fraction") of what you need to piece certain plot points together is reliant on extra-textual things.  One of the ONLY weaknesses, mind you.

TaoHorror

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« Reply #69 on: August 30, 2017, 10:32:46 pm »
For me, the art of this read overwhelms any need for clarity on every bit of it - don't need it all tied up in a bow for me to love it. Bakker provided the best gift an author can give ... wonder. I love thinking about the story and what it all means and where it might go from here. The beauty of this story ( my favorite of all time across all mediums ) is how it sends my mind in so many different directions simultaneously. If things were more "exact" and fulfilled, it wouldn't have been as fun and I wouldn't have had the extreme pleasure of talking this out with you fine people!
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ThoughtsOfThelli

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« Reply #70 on: August 30, 2017, 10:35:03 pm »
Ooooh, Thelli - I love your thinking! I think you're right, Kel was the 100th Chorae ( Serwa didn't make a mistake ).

Not my theory originally, but I do agree with it and think it is more likely than Serwa making a mistake.


Yep, just wandered in through the endless tunnels, caught the elevator up 100 floors (pausing to kill his sister in the midst of combat ofc), straight to the golden room where a skin spy receptionist says, "The Consult are I'm a meeting, you'll have to wait." But no, just use eye beams to disintergrate that, waltz in and cause havoc. Mutilated are all like "wtf, skin spy 10056, you could have let us know. Lol, nvm, this is how conditioned ground works of course Lolol. 12D benjuka, Winning!"

All clear to me now, thanks.

I'm not sure if this is referring to my previous post, but if so, I wasn't trying to give the impression that Kelmomas' journey to the Golden Room (with or without a Chorae murder break) was quick. I was just listing the sequence of events, which would have taken quite a while by themselves. :)


For me, the art of this read overwhelms any need for clarity on every bit of it - don't need it all tied up in a bow for me to love it. Bakker provided the best gift an author can give ... wonder. I love thinking about the story and what it all means and where it might go from here. The beauty of this story ( my favorite of all time across all mediums ) is how it sends my mind in so many different directions simultaneously. If things were more "exact" and fulfilled, it wouldn't have been as fun and I wouldn't have had the extreme pleasure of talking this out with you fine people!

I agree in part and completely understand what you mean, but I'm the kind of person who's too curious about some details to stop questioning/discussing them altogether and just appreciate the writing. ;)
"But you’ve simply made the discovery that Thelli made—only without the benefit of her unerring sense of fashion."
-Anasûrimbor Kayûtas (The Great Ordeal, chapter 13)

"You prefer to believe women victims to their passions, but we can be at least as calculating as you. Love does not make us weak, but strong."
-Ykoriana of the Masks (The Third God, chapter 27)

Cüréthañ

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« Reply #71 on: August 30, 2017, 10:55:48 pm »
Please excuse my incredulous sarcasm in my previous post. It's become rather clear to me that my interpretation of these books so often runs against consensus that I must be deluding myself as to what I am reading.

I think it's best if I just stay out of these discussions and avoid Bakker's work entirely in future.
Retracing his bloody footprints, the Wizard limped on.

SmilerLoki

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« Reply #72 on: August 30, 2017, 11:24:17 pm »
Please excuse my incredulous sarcasm in my previous post. It's become rather clear to me that my interpretation of these books so often runs against consensus that I must be deluding myself as to what I am reading.

I think it's best if I just stay out of these discussions and avoid Bakker's work entirely in future.
Maybe it's not necessary to take so drastic of a step? Consensus is often overrated, and different perspectives are important when matters are less than clear.

Nil Sertrax

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« Reply #73 on: August 31, 2017, 12:52:58 am »
"Yes. It's a holographic projection, simply meant to keep the Great Ordeal - and the Schoolmen in particular - pinned in place while the Oar comes rattles back to life."

IMHO, the most simple interpretation of this response, given the poor grammar, is that it contains a typo or was auto-corrected into something other than what he intended.  Would "sarcophagus" get auto corrected into "Oar comes"?  I always read it as the sarcophagus coming back online but, again, even Bakker's clarifications occasionally require clarification. 

So when is the AMA scheduled where he will provide answers regarding his responses in the initial AMA?!?!?   

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« Reply #74 on: August 31, 2017, 01:12:13 am »
Please excuse my incredulous sarcasm in my previous post. It's become rather clear to me that my interpretation of these books so often runs against consensus that I must be deluding myself as to what I am reading.

I think it's best if I just stay out of these discussions and avoid Bakker's work entirely in future.
Naw, no need to take it so seriously. I do agree with you, though. The 'he traded one tyrant for four' and the fact he said 'I told you!', pretty sure that was after Kellhus was dead.