The Second Apocalypse
Earwa => The Prince of Nothing => The Almanac: PON Edition => Topic started by: Redeagl on February 13, 2017, 02:55:27 pm
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The disscusion for TDTCB first five chapters. Unexpected things happened to me so I doubt I will read the chapters myself before Thursday sadly but I would join the disscusion here at least.
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I'm down to reread the entire series, Redeagl. :) But, unfortunately, how much feedback have we received? Merchant, Shai, Wilshire and Madness jumping in atTAE....
I know that the last Slog did fall off after PoN. Maybe, taking on Madness'so advice of starting at TAE might spurn more conversation? I'm open to whatever, but I'd like it to be social, just not me and you arguing over tidbits.
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I'm down to reread the entire series, Redeagl. :) But, unfortunately, how much feedback have we received? Merchant, Shai, Wilshire and Madness jumping in atTAE....
I know that the last Slog did fall off after PoN. Maybe, taking on Madness'so advice of starting at TAE might spurn more conversation? I'm open to whatever, but I'd like it to be social, just not me and you arguing over tidbits.
I made the thread because of the poll results which were 5:0 so I guess there are some people who will join us.If none of those people joined us I guess we can directly skip to TAE.
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Just go for it dude. Don't worry about whatever the non-participants may or may not be doing. You took a vote, got a whole 5 responses which is pretty good, so just do it.
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If you post, they will come. (Or they won't.)
If no one posts though, certainly no one will come.
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Is it me or is kellhus is alot more sympaththic here then later on even though we know what he ends up being. It's just me throwing shit at the wall but maybe the logos males them nuts or joker is sane syndrom
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Is it me or is kellhus is alot more sympaththic here then later on even though we know what he ends up being. It's just me throwing shit at the wall but maybe the logos males them nuts or joker is sane syndrom
I'd say no. He's just in sensory overload. Taking in all this new information is just overwhelming.
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Is it me or is kellhus is alot more sympaththic here then later on even though we know what he ends up being. It's just me throwing shit at the wall but maybe the logos males them nuts or joker is sane syndrom
How was he sympathetic ? He saved Lewis until he led him on his way after that it was " do I know you, bud? Don't think so "
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Is it me or is kellhus is alot more sympaththic here then later on even though we know what he ends up being. It's just me throwing shit at the wall but maybe the logos males them nuts or joker is sane syndrom
How was he sympathetic ? He saved Lewis until he led him led him on his way after that it was " do I know you, bud? Don't think so "
Well, more sympathetic, definitely, considering it's pretty hard to be sympathetic with him later.
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Is it me or is kellhus is alot more sympaththic here then later on even though we know what he ends up being. It's just me throwing shit at the wall but maybe the logos males them nuts or joker is sane syndrom
Absolutely. He certainly seems more human, wandering around in the woods, looking at sticks like a little kid. Being nursed to health, then helping his caretaker get over his alcohol addition and depression.
There's a sense of wonder and compassion there in the beginning for the reader to sympathize with. Even leave Leweth for dead is pretty justifiable. He was going to die anyway, no need for them BOTH to get killed because of a little sympathy. Kellhus wasn't the one that sent the hunting bands of sranc after Leweth, he was just a sad casualty in a war that hadn't even started yet.
And, look, maybe Kellhus spends the rest of the series avenging Leweth's death? Maybe THAT is the trial that broke him. His first true relationship squashed by the Consult. Spends the next 30 years trying to murder every last one of them.... How noble :)
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Is it me or is kellhus is alot more sympaththic here then later on even though we know what he ends up being. It's just me throwing shit at the wall but maybe the logos males them nuts or joker is sane syndrom
Absolutely. He certainly seems more human, wandering around in the woods, looking at sticks like a little kid. Being nursed to health, then helping his caretaker get over his alcohol addition and depression.
There's a sense of wonder and compassion there in the beginning for the reader to sympathize with. Even leave Leweth for dead is pretty justifiable. He was going to die anyway, no need for them BOTH to get killed because of a little sympathy. Kellhus wasn't the one that sent the hunting bands of sranc after Leweth, he was just a sad casualty in a war that hadn't even started yet.
And, look, maybe Kellhus spends the rest of the series avenging Leweth's death? Maybe THAT is the trial that broke him. His first true relationship squashed by the Consult. Spends the next 30 years trying to murder every last one of them.... How noble :)
I think that Kellhus was just practising on him and seeing how weak world born children are.Kellhus is just a fool who thinks he is better than everybody really. His ego is comparable to that of Conphas.
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I really love how he sets up akky as this little meek dude who can kill everyone with a snap of his fingers rereading the first few chapters is really sad knowing where ate favorite cuckold ends up.
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Did anyone on their very first read get the feeling that Akka was a pedophile or at least a guy with a sketchy past? I'm remembering my very first read thru and I thought he molested proyas, loved inrau, and loved esmi because he just not supposed to. I think one of my earliest post was asking if akka was a pedophile.
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Did anyone on their very first read get the feeling that Akka was a pedophile or at least a guy with a sketchy past? I'm remembering my very first read thru and I thought he molested proyas, loved inrau, and loved esmi because he just not supposed to. I think one of my earliest post was asking if akka was a pedophile.
He did have something going on with Inrau I think, also he had a childhood friend where he outright mentions him as a lover.Not sure if he did anything to Proyas but it wouldn't have been Proyas last time :P
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Did anyone on their very first read get the feeling that Akka was a pedophile or at least a guy with a sketchy past? I'm remembering my very first read thru and I thought he molested proyas, loved inrau, and loved esmi because he just not supposed to. I think one of my earliest post was asking if akka was a pedophile.
I got the impression the first time I read the books, but on rereads I never found any real evidence he did anything.
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Did anyone on their very first read get the feeling that Akka was a pedophile or at least a guy with a sketchy past? I'm remembering my very first read thru and I thought he molested proyas, loved inrau, and loved esmi because he just not supposed to. I think one of my earliest post was asking if akka was a pedophile.
No, I never got that impression; I always considered Achamian completely hetero, given Esmenet's early appearance in the story. Akka's love for Inrau, IMHO, is textbook Platonic teacher/student relationship.
Don't all sorcerers in the Three Seas have sketchy pasts? And even sketchier futures? :o
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Did anyone on their very first read get the feeling that Akka was a pedophile or at least a guy with a sketchy past? I'm remembering my very first read thru and I thought he molested proyas, loved inrau, and loved esmi because he just not supposed to. I think one of my earliest post was asking if akka was a pedophile.
No, I never got that impression; I always considered Achamian completely hetero, given Esmenet's early appearance in the story. Akka's love for Inrau, IMHO, is textbook Platonic teacher/student relationship.
Don't all sorcerers in the Three Seas have sketchy pasts? And even sketchier futures? :o
I think he loves his students - platonic, as you said, he's just a caring person. Yes, seriously. Not everything in this book has to be dark and twisted lol.
That said, he was at least bi-curious in his youth. There's a passage early on about him being in a relationship with his roommate earlier in his career as a sorcerer. Can't remember his name, but given that all sorcerers are men at this point, it must have been a man lol. I think he's even mentioned in one of the glossaries as Achamian's lover I think, and there is a couple sentences in one of the books about it as well.
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But at that time that was all I knew about Akka. All his students kinda ran away from him, his bosses don't fully trust him Cuz of shit he did in the past, and there has been at least 2 child molestations and I'm only like 5 chapters into this book. Lmao this is my out there thoughts on the very first read thru.
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There is an argument there for sure, and its not the first time I've heard it from first time readers or veterans.
I'm just saying that's not what I saw on the first read or thereafter. *shrug*
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There is an argument there for sure, and its not the first time I've heard it from first time readers or veterans.
I'm just saying that's not what I saw on the first read or thereafter. *shrug*
So you are saying there is just something wrong with us? ;)
It was definitely something I felt could have been the case on my first read, but subsequently never stood up to actual investigation, like most feelings in life.
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What I am sure of is that he is semi Bisexual, and he have a tendency of describing men especially boys from a sexual point of view. He also remarks on Esmenet "boyish" hair I think hence my own sucpecions.
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I'll put myself in the never thought anything more than "teacher/student love with Achamian and his students" camp.
I'd guess that the online culture surrounding the books and the modern culture disconnect from that kind of teacher/student interaction might bias readers though. In that kind of context, Achamian might have spent more time around Proyas than his parents and Inrau was the student that Achamian "saved" from the Mandate.
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I'll put myself in the never thought anything more than "teacher/student love with Achamian and his students" camp.
I'd guess that the online culture surrounding the books and the modern culture disconnect from that kind of teacher/student interaction might bias readers though. In that kind of context, Achamian might have spent more time around Proyas than his parents and Inrau was the student that Achamian "saved" from the Mandate.
This was same exact thoughts. Sorry for not keeping up on the Slog. I've been very busy at home. When the Slog reaches TGO, I will be more than happy to join in. Sorry Redeagl and all others participating. Just don't have time to read and dissect and be committed to posting at the moment.
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Did anyone on their very first read get the feeling that Akka was a pedophile or at least a guy with a sketchy past? I'm remembering my very first read thru and I thought he molested proyas, loved inrau, and loved esmi because he just not supposed to. I think one of my earliest post was asking if akka was a pedophile.
No, I never got that impression; I always considered Achamian completely hetero, given Esmenet's early appearance in the story. Akka's love for Inrau, IMHO, is textbook Platonic teacher/student relationship.
Don't all sorcerers in the Three Seas have sketchy pasts? And even sketchier futures? :o
I think he loves his students - platonic, as you said, he's just a caring person. Yes, seriously. Not everything in this book has to be dark and twisted lol.
That said, he was at least bi-curious in his youth. There's a passage early on about him being in a relationship with his roommate earlier in his career as a sorcerer. Can't remember his name, but given that all sorcerers are men at this point, it must have been a man lol. I think he's even mentioned in one of the glossaries as Achamian's lover I think, and there is a couple sentences in one of the books about it as well.
Yeah guys get choraed , it's his lover that makes the argument that only mandate give without hope of reward. They read that defence of the dark arts book together in the scene Akka remembers him.
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So, I am about halfway through TDTCB, and I can't help but notice all the references to Shakers and Onkis. Is this a thematic choice for the book? Or, was Bakker starting something with Onkis only to drop it? I mean, as a goddess she could have a ton of implications in this series, but after TDTCB we rarely, if ever hear about her. So, I'm forced to believe its thematic.
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I want to know how and why Maithenet would know that Akka would be vital to Kellhus. Maithenet sends Proyas a letter wherein he tells him to aid the Mandate sorcerer Drusas Achamian. But, how did they know? Is this a clue that Moe knows that the principle of Before and After are false? That he went to the Outside and seen that Akka would become Kellhus's teacher?
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I want to know how and why Maithenet would know that Akka would be vital to Kellhus. Maithenet sends Proyas a letter wherein he tells him to aid the Mandate sorcerer Drusas Achamian. But, how did they know? Is this a clue that Moe knows that the principle of Before and After are false? That he went to the Outside and seen that Akka would become Kellhus's teacher?
Well, part of the Thought must factor in the Celmomian Prophecy. As such, they must realize that part of making Kellhus "accepted" lies in getting the Mandate to believe he is the Harbinger. As such, I think it would behoove to groom Akka for the role, which they do.
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I want to know how and why Maithenet would know that Akka would be vital to Kellhus. Maithenet sends Proyas a letter wherein he tells him to aid the Mandate sorcerer Drusas Achamian. But, how did they know? Is this a clue that Moe knows that the principle of Before and After are false? That he went to the Outside and seen that Akka would become Kellhus's teacher?
Well, part of the Thought must factor in the Celmomian Prophecy. As such, they must realize that part of making Kellhus "accepted" lies in getting the Mandate to believe he is the Harbinger. As such, I think it would behoove to groom Akka for the role, which they do.
Right. But, how do they know this?
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Right. But, how do they know this?
Maith must have some little birds about, he probably knew that Akka was in the area. In fact, if I remember correctly, Maith sees Akka and I believe he questions Proyas about him. He presumably connects the dots, or Moe does, to realize what is the right course of action will be.
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Maith must have some little birds about, he probably knew that Akka was in the area. In fact, if I remember correctly, Maith sees Akka and I believe he questions Proyas about him. He presumably connects the dots, or Moe does, to realize what is the right course of action will be.
He sees him at The Hagerna when declaring the object of the Holy War. But, it doesn't explain how he knows that Akka will teach him. Maybe its deduction, I guess.
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Maith must have some little birds about, he probably knew that Akka was in the area. In fact, if I remember correctly, Maith sees Akka and I believe he questions Proyas about him. He presumably connects the dots, or Moe does, to realize what is the right course of action will be.
He sees him at The Hagerna when declaring the object of the Holy War. But, it doesn't explain how he knows that Akka will teach him. Maybe its deduction, I guess.
They don't really need know he would teach him, per se, to know that having a Mandati for Kellhus to "convert" would be a definite benefit.
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They don't really need know he would teach him, per se, to know that having a Mandati for Kellhus to "convert" would be a definite benefit.
Yea, I guess it one of those thing where I might just be reading too much into it. If Moe/Maith know about Celmommian Prophecy, and I'm sure they do, it makes sense to get a Mandate sorcerer near Kellhus based on Anasurimbor alone.
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Yea, I guess it one of those thing where I might just be reading too much into it. If Moe/Maith know about Celmommian Prophecy, and I'm sure they do, it makes sense to get a Mandate sorcerer near Kellhus based on Anasurimbor alone.
Part of the Thought's success lies in setting up the dominoes in the right way, so that when they do fall, they fall in a beneficial way, every time. So it all seems lucky, but it's all because it was set up to have highly probable beneficiary outcomes at every turn. Up to, and including, making itself come true.
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He'll see much of Akka in Proyas, know he has a teacher's soul etc.