The Second Apocalypse
Miscellaneous Chatter => General Misc. => Topic started by: Callan S. on November 11, 2014, 01:27:15 am
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Edit: Since the threads were combined - here is the game link : http://www.kongregate.com/games/Noontide/s-rank-slayers
Hullos,
I decided on 'S-rank Goblins' for a simple flash game project, simply so I didn't have to think about IP BS. I doubt Scott would not agree on the use of Sranc in a game, but because of all the money stuff and lawyers are kind of like morality molecule police in Earwa and ever present, it might prove problematic. Anyway, so it's Goblins of a certain rank - it being 'S'.
It's an 'idle game' - if you're not familiar there's quite a few out (http://www.kongregate.com/idle-games) with many plays. You don't interact with them a lot, you sort of leave them running while you browse, occasionally coming back to manage stuff.
The screen shot in the attachment, though it might be hard to see (as you start off killing baby S-rank, so the graphic is shrunk. It grows as you get through the game), is actually from the wiki (slightly modified). It's a placeholder graphic - I don't have permission to use it publicly. That's partly why I'm here - to ask for a 128x128 sized art of an envisioning of what sranc might look like. I want to go with the black and white a lot of artists seem to use for PON work - but blood red is allowed amongst the black and white! I will end up drawing my own, otherwise - it will be mouse drawn art. You have been warned! :P
I'm planning to have a number of links in the bottom left corner, stuff like 'inspired by the prince of nothing series' which will be clickable and open a browser to...I dunno. TPB? TPB is weird, the promo site is dead. Probably TPB. And maybe one to here, who knows? :). So it's me writing up a game, so as to create something, make a few cents from kongregate hosting and to promote the books in a different avenue.
I'd also like art for the background behind the gobo - gnarled black and white trees, perhaps. Wouldn't mind varied soil art too. For can you anymore sin against dirt? Probably 160 tall, however wide you want for the background. 32x32 for the dirt tiles.
Will have a credits page the lists contributing artists names (or handles, whatev) and a clickable link to their stuff.
Thanks for any contributions that can be made! :)
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I have spent many an hour on Kongregate. If you make an idle game, I will idle the shit out of it. Not much to offer in the way of anything practical, so good luck.
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Dunno is TPB would be a better choice than bakker.com or whatever it is. It might be a static site, but it at least links to books. I think people may quickly feel overwhelmed by TBP and not inquire further (the link to s-rank [hilarious btw. a good choice] may not be obvious).
Maybe the wiki? People like wiki's.
I'd love to say that here is a good place too, but its apparent that no one cares about forums lol. If it were me, I'd throw one here, but I'm so very bias.
Any idea when you'd like to release it?
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Maybe a couple of weeks from now. The main code is written, I'm just tweaking the advancement system and then I have to *sigh* write some tutorial text, which is always a pain. Then add the save system (easy) and test it (not so easy).
Edit: Does anyone know the artist who did the sranc picture in the wiki (http://princeofnothing.wikia.com/wiki/Sranc)? I was hoping she/he would turn up and go 'hae, sure, you can use if I gets some credit!'
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I thought that was originally posted here somewhere but I may be mistaken.
One of Somna's earlier ones actually:
http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=743.msg9314#msg9314
and color:
http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=743.msg9322#msg9322
and head:
http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=743.msg9365#msg9365
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Yeah, those were mine. Let me re-read through this topic and I'll get back to you. Just need to make sure I'm in possession of all the facts. :)
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I don't mind you using the attached image in regards to the game you're making. I modified it a little from the original sketch. Let me know.
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Sweet! What can I give a link to as a credit?
That's a nice piece - the outer edges are nice and dark - I was adding a sort of black aura effect before to distinguish the creature from the white background, but that's not needed now.
I've added it to the game and have attached two screen shots. The first is the size the creature starts at (child form). At 1000 strength it is full size and the second attached screen shot shows that.
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Cool :) I suppose you can use http://spiralhorizon.deviantart.com/
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Would love if that modified sranc was in your art folder at deviant art, then I could link directly to it - the old sranc art wont show if you don't have a deviant art account. Otherwise I've put that link in.
Currently I have the links and their text slightly opaque, so as to not grab the eye, but also not let the eye ignore them utterly. I'm wondering if I should turn them down slightly more. Also whether the wording seems okay.
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Link it to the wiki? There is no filter on that one.
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Would love if that modified sranc was in your art folder at deviant art, then I could link directly to it - the old sranc art wont show if you don't have a deviant art account. Otherwise I've put that link in.
http://spiralhorizon.deviantart.com/art/S-rank-gray-494386500 (http://spiralhorizon.deviantart.com/art/S-rank-gray-494386500)
done
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Enthused by feedback I'm actually a long way along now - enough I've been bold enough to start setting it up on kongregate (it is not yet live, though)
Okay, behind the scenes stuff - I decided to aim for roughly a roughly 14 hour game. That's quite a few hours, though some idle games can (with prestige systems) can go for far longer. I'm kind of exploring the genre and getting a feel for whether it can be viable in some sort of income for the author thing, if such a thing can be imagined (generally it's about 1 cent per ten plays - so it's pretty weak sauce. That's why I'm trying a larger game time span. Maybe I should look into micro transaction stuff - and break a few kitten necks at the same time, because why just do one?).
It does make playtesting a bit of a pain in the ass though, like I found with my previous idle game. So bugs will be hiding in it.
That's my caveats - gunna sleep on it and see if I'll suck in my guts and click the publish button tomorrow.
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From my experience, 14 hours seems like far to few to get people to use microtransactions. It would have to be much longer. People will happily spend a few days ramping up the timescales. Its not until after that that people start considering purchasing time reducing items and the like. I've seen people spend hundreds, if not thousands, on what amounts to idle games, but thats when you're talking about weeks of time saved rather than hours or even days.
Once its out let me know. I'll see if I can't earn you a penny or two.
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The 14 hours is just so a bunch of individual sessions occur, as I guess it - and each session adds to the number of plays.
The whole area of psychology manipulation via game design is very Kellhus like. (http://insertcredit.com/2011/09/22/who-killed-videogames-a-ghost-story/)
Choice quote from that article “The players will come for the cute characters, and stay for the cruel mathematics.”
One might even say 'Kallous' mathematics! Nyuk, nyuk!
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The game is up!
http://www.kongregate.com/games/Noontide/s-rank-slayers
And now I cringe as I wait for bug reports! :)
Actually I should probably sell it as more than that - get in there and slay thousands of s-rank 'goblins' that have grown to massive numbers after being left unchecked. Developing your strength each time you slay one! See if you can get the highest strength score on the high score list and be mightier than anyone else! For the s-rank are growing in strength themselves...
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That is an awesome post
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Continued in new thread (http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=1484.0)
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The bit I find funny is how some commenters say they have to restart to get potions. When really they'd get them through the normal process of playing for awhile, then coming back latter. But no, they have to have them...
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I think most of the commenters feel like there isnt "enough to do"... Granted its an IDLE game, but whatever. If there were different things to upgrade, like armor pieces, it might generate the illusion of doing more things, and I don't think you'd have to alter the mechanics much. That said, its a fairly interactive Idle, since you can't get so far ahead in strength or horde potions to be able to walk away and still be alive when you come back. So there is both too much, and not enough, to do :P.
I think the success of AdVenture Capitalist on Kong is very telling. Its one of the most played games right now. There is almost constantly something to click on for several hours, and then it slows down a bit and you can click things every few hours, then days, etc. Lots of bars zipping across the screen. The core mechanic is simply waiting for the money counter up top and click to buy more stores. Its so basic, but for whatever reason people love it.
Otherwise, I cringe at the idea of existing online such as your game. People expect a AAA gaming experience for free, and obviously don't understand that a lot of the popular games on the site are made by people,and teams, getting a paycheck.
Thanks for the game. I'm going to attempt to make it through 9001 at least once, see how the end game goes.
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The thing you run into as a designer - or atleast I do - is you start asking yourself 'Am I just making busy work?'. When there's no thematic material in 'something to do', it just becomes busy work.
I'm thinking of changing potions to charge to 200 (then you have to click), but at 25+ if you refresh you get one - just to see if there still are 'you HAVE to refresh to get potion' comments at that point.
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I've come up with the idea of s-rank saying mad things...these things may or may not be paraphrasings of comments. Think I've got it into the code (and a potion modification), but am waiting a bit before putting it in in case I think of something drastically wrong about the change in the next few hours.
With potions, I've always played flash games for about 5 to 15 minutes, so to me it makes sense you would just get them by playing normally or you could choose to refresh. I guess that might not work out for people who play in another way than me (ie, for hours at a time)
Thinking of some sort of 'bandage wound' mechanic to add during the searching phase, so as to have some...busy work...then. Like the S-rank occasionally do 2 damage (if you're above 2 HP) but one can be bandaged to heal it early, if you click like ten times on it. Or just leave it because whatev's.
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I dont know how that leap is made, from "busy work" to enticing game mechanic, in the players mind.
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I dont know how that leap is made, from "busy work" to enticing game mechanic, in the players mind.
Flattery.
Ok, that's glib of me. That is the easiest way to it! Hopefully not the only way!
I don't know if it shows in the story text, but I'm trying to draw on the theme of parallels between men and sranc.
Also I find the responce interesting - here's the metric I'm using - I'm comparing responces to these games
http://www.kongregate.com/games/GabbyDough/i-love-gardevoir
http://www.kongregate.com/games/sabercow/go-right-for-awesome
With my own.
It's interesting a stronger negative responce is occuring. I mean the latter, "Go right for awesome" has a 2.2 rating. And 2K+ plays. And as far as I can tell you 'guide' a ripped sprite of scrooge Mc Duck to walk right, then it restarts the room, putting you back on the left hand side. Over and over.
"I Love Gardevour", though granted has a boob filled icon, comes in at about the same rating I currently have - commenters say I'm a lazy developer, but I have about over a dozen more features than ILG, which...has a number go up a bit faster if you click. And hearts that flash (well I guess that's two features). I'm pretty sure I could make ILG in less than an hour, but have spent 12+ hours on S-rank Slayers.
It strikes me as a discrepancy. And I was using ILG as a kind of benchmark from the start ("Atleast I've done more than ILG!")
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lmao that is pretty funny. Maybe, the more there is, the more they want. A game is almost no features is "obviously" some kind of joke, and therefore unworthy of negativity. A game that looks like someone bothered trying, on the other hand, makes users feel entitled to want more. I have no idea.
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lmao that is pretty funny. Maybe, the more there is, the more they want. A game is almost no features is "obviously" some kind of joke, and therefore unworthy of negativity. A game that looks like someone bothered trying, on the other hand, makes users feel entitled to want more. I have no idea.
That seems pretty plausible. Like some sort of gravatic effect - the more there is, the more gravity, which means the gravity grasps for more...
So like I had the nucleus of a planet
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Granted I played after adding a 'Ravings kill' mechanic and a bandage making and using mechanic, but I played it more properly today (playtesting isn't real playing, I think) and I quite enjoyed it myself. Hitting the mad ravings for a kill and then if that doesn't come up (it has a fifty percent chance) hitting instant kill and if they run out, then there's bandages to click or the strength store to activate.
In writing a game it's hard to know what it'll take to engage yourself - sometimes you get wrapped up in feature bloat and then the game gets too big and you don't finish it. It's nice to have actually gotten an engaging combo for myself there without falling into feature bloat! Just hope the score keeping system is still working - not quite sure how kongregate handles it. Sometimes it'll alert you you just got a high score and update itself, other times it just doesn't care.
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I'll have to take another look at it today and see the changes and additions. Glad you made yourself happy with it though. Lets see if the commenters complain more or less with the addition.
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Should give props to the centrepiece artist, Somnambulist, while I'm about it!
I made the expansion happen quicker (full size at 100 strength instead of 1000), because it seemed some weren't appreciating it was getting bigger over time.
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Instant gratification. I like how that is one of the top comments "picture too small"
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I got my first potion without F5 :o !
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Yeah, I modified to either getting 200 points and clicking or you can refresh.
It seemed a choice to me before rather than a hard requirement, but play styles differ wildly, it seems.
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Instant gratification. I like how that is one of the top comments "picture too small"
First thing you learn as a designer after publishing, no one reads anything. It says in the text you fight their young at first. Nup, no reading.
On the other hand though the charts show a bunch of people have played through to scores higher than I've gotten, so the commentators might be fairly aberrant examples.
Actually that'd be a neat t-shirt 'Aberrant Example'!
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I like that :P