Quote from: Wilshire on May 07, 2013, 05:13:25 pm

Also, in the Inverse Fire, Aurang is described as the Prince of the Inchoroi, which to me is another Prince of Nothing.

Inchoroi means "People of Emptiness" in Nonman speak right?

Yes.

This will be criticized for being more examples of Bakker's horrible misogyny but I think it's the opposite. It's some really extreme feminist message at this point.

That's the impression I get from it as well.  Bakker's writing fantasy as if it was as nasty as real life, and in many ancient cultures being lower class and/or a woman was a life full of suck.  In the Prince of Nothing, all the terrible shit that happened with Esmenet filled me with outrage for the unfairness of it, not at the author but at the world that trapped her.  This is a series of books that has two different armies slaughter all their slaves, one of them taking slaves out into the wilderness knowing that they're going to have to kill them, and not one, but two world ending Apocalypses.   Bad things happen to powerless people and even power is no guarantee of safety.

Yeah, not all the supporters of the Vile are dead but clearly circumstances have changed.  The giant with four Chorae in his armour who just killed the king is exhibit A in "things are not like they were an hour ago".  She might fry a couple of dudes, but she's here to crush the Consult and recruit allies.  The crushing Consult supporters bit is well in hand, now is the time to work the ghouls.  Or, more precisely, to continue working the ghouls she has been preparing with her singing.

Mimara forgives Galian for raping her because she can see the extent of his damnation and it is so horrific that she pities him.  She can't bear to add any more torment to what is due because what he will already suffer is so terrible already.  Galian is already literally so damned that he evokes sympathy from his victim.  The passage illustrates the Mimara is not so damaged as to be incapable of empathy and how terrible damnation is.  There is no indication that she has the power to forgive sins other than that of a person to forgive someone who has wrong him or her, although it would be really nice if she did.

@Cynical Cat, those are all great points I haven't taking into account. Truly, with Nin'ciljaras dead and Orinaus also there what is the sense in killing potential allies? Great post.

Thank you.

I have to put myself in the mundane singing camp.

1) Metagnostic cants are Gnostic cants with two nonutterals.  They are more difficult and demanding to use that conventional cants, but allow new capabilities by having two nonutterals fix the uttered cant.  The collar works by interrupting an attempted cant with crippling pain (and possibly death in this case).  This means attempting a Gnostic cant is suicide and since the Metagnosis is even more demanding to use than the Gnosis, it is even less likely to succeed.

2) Serwa had previously intended to unleash wrack and ruin, but her intended targets are now dead.  Circumstances have changed and the actions needed to master the new circumstances have changed as well.

3) A major theme of the series is that the power of sorcery may be great but the power to command men is greater.  The liege of all sorcerers is more powerful than a sorcerer.  She has been honing her skills to take the minds and loyalties of the Nonmen and she bears a great portion of her father's gifts.  As her Dunyain father did when hanging from the circumflex, she will seize.

Let me clarify.  Cnaiur's sorcerer is not a sorcerer of rank.  He's doing the same trick Akka does to communicate with the Mandate and Moenghus uses to contact the Dunyain:  he connects to a known location during dreams. The army marches to Joktha to await the fleet to take the Nansur home.  Mobile point.   

That's not what happens with Skaurus, which is unique.  It's not a simple projection but an interactive event set place and time with Skaurus and an unknown number of Cishaurim on the other side and Moenghus and the Emperor on the other.  It's not on It probably only requires one Cishaurim on Skaurus's side because it seems to be a sorcery that requires more skill than brute strength, but we don't know either way.  It's a singular, prearranged incident its performed only by the Cishaurum but there is no indication that it couldn't be done by the other types of sorcerers.  That particular combination of ability, need, and circumstance doesn't show up again.

So we don't know for sure either way, but there are several things we do know about sorcery.  The all share the same broad capabilities.  All of them can do dream sending and Anagogic and Gnostic Sorcery tend to do complexity better that the Psukhe.  So we don't know for sure that the Scarlet Spires can or cannot match that feat, but we do know that the available evidence strongly suggests that they can.

All valid points.  I hadn't considered that particular aspect of the books until now, but yes princes of nothing abound.  There numbers only grow in the Aspect Emperor when we add Mimara, Cleric, Sorweel, and Fanayal.  One could also argue several other characters might qualify as well.