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Topics - Likaro

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Bakker is really good at providing horrifying and grisly demises for many of his characters. Who do you think had the worst fate?

(Let's forget that most people in Earwa qualify as you have only like a 4% chance you aren't going to hell)

Number one on the list has to be poor Proyas. This guy really was put through the mill.

Through the Holy War he had his faith and resilience tested many, many times. He was broken when he ordered the execution of Kellhus and his subsequent conversion to Team Kellhus.

Then you have the whole Ordeal segment. He has his faith shattered by his prophet, he gets raped by his prophet. He has to lead the Ordeal on the worst leg of the march,

becoming a Sranc-mad cannibal in the process. An to top it off he is then betrayed yet again by Kellhus, who turns him into the badly needed scapegoat the Ordeal needs to

continue.

He is hung in wrappings and humiliated before the whole Ordeal. The final indignity is he is then suffocated by his nephew.

Awful.

(Btw, where is Akka when that whole thing goes down in the tent with the Scylvendi? I thought Akka was right there, seems very odd he would just peace out and leave Proyas there when he was so frantic to save his life??)

Perhaps the only character to me that competes with Proyas in terms of misery is Nau-Cayuti.

This guy was a badass and a hero. Yet he ends up being betrayed by his mistress and sold down the river to the Consult. He is taken into Golgotterath and subjected to untold torture/rape/horror. Then he gets exposed to the Inverse Fire and stuffed into the Carapace, the ultimate betrayal to his cause.

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The Unholy Consult / [TUC Spoilers] Kellhus' Options
« on: August 07, 2017, 06:26:21 pm »
I guess I'm interested to hear from others, did Kellhus have a chance to "Win" ? What exactly were the options available to him?

My contention is that he was screwed no matter what, that the enemies and problems against him were too much for anybody, even Super-Saiyan Dunyain, even a hybrid. level 99 warrior/mage/monk could deal with.

I put "win" in quotes above because we still really do not know what his true motives were. Maybe even he didn't know (Ajokli again).

All we can reasonably assume is that Kellhus does not want to burn in agony forever, so it seems avoiding or stopping damnation is the one goal we can infer he did want to achieve.

The other big question is, does Kellhus really want to help humanity or is he purely in it for himself? He does seem to be concerned with the general welfare and souls of humanity, in the broadest possible sense. In other words, yes Kellhus is an asshole- he will use and destroy thousands without a blink- if it saves millions. At least to my feeling on the character.

The other trouble with this discussion is Ajokli. For all we know, Kellhus might have died on the Circumfix without Ajokli's help. So in that regard we have to assume he's going to be involved in some way no matter what and every option open of Kellhus' is tainted with his presence.

Let's look at what some of his goals could have been:

A. Wipe out the Consult and end the resumption of the No-God.

Problems -

1. If it was just the Consult, it seems like Kellhus had a decent chance of winning the encounter. But it wasn't just the decrepit Consult he was dealing with...

The Dunsult combined with all those Skin Skies in the Golden Room means Kellhus is toast without some kind of trump card (Ajokli). I don't see how with his normal powers he could have survived unless he had a God on his side.  This brings us back to another problem (if Ajokli was out of the picture)- he really should not have gone in there alone. If Serwa, Kayutas and some other heavy hitters were with him maybe he could have pulled out the win.

Even if he had taken everyone out in the Golden Room, the Ordeal was still stranded thousands of miles in the barren North with no food and winter on the way. No matter what the Ordeal was going to die, but Kellhus at least could have translocated to safety. (Let's also not forget the effects on the Ordeal of eating Sranc, Man, and Irridiated man. Fallout tells me eating radiated food is not good for you)

2. There apparently was no way for him to recognize the threat of Kelmomas. This gets into the free will vs destiny stuff but assuming he had killed the child that probably ends the No God possibility right then and there, at least for a time. He wins in that outcome. If he doesn't kill Kelmomas it seems like he is fated to lose.

3. Kellhus knows about Topoi but somehow did not foresee Ajokli being very strong in Golgotterath and taking over? Unless he knew it would happen and was again, willing to take that chance?

4. Even if Kellhus prevails in the Golden Room, he still needs to do something about the Horde 2.0 which is right there, facing a hemmed in Golgotterath Ordeal...massive problem for him to deal with even with his abilities.

5. The big trouble with all permutations of this is that he is still damned at the end of it.

B. Kill the Consult and Reign in Hell

Problems

1. This would go with the side that argues Kellhus is an asshole that doesn't care about anyone else, and he is fine with condemning everyone else to the pit. Unless of course he thinks he can change the nature of Hell and the Outside from Within?

2. He is dealing with the God of Trickery and Deception. Ajokli is not likely to stay true to whatever "bargain" or treaty was struck.

3. Seems a very grim option and not really a "win" for anyone. Seems more like a nasty version of "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" than anything else...turning the world into Hell is perhaps even worse than letting the Consult win. Then again maybe this was the best he could hope for, given the system?



C. Kill the Consult, then kill the Gods

We don't know enough about Earwan metaphysics to debate this one much. It's doubtful Kellhus has the power to kill a God (Or Gods). If he did so, then does reality collapse?

D. Join the Consult

1. Again, this comes back to what Kellhus really cares about , if anything. His stated values seem to be be dead set against the Consult so I don't see how he would allow himself to join them. He does appear to view their angle and past as abhorrent.

2. Still might be his best option to save himself and perhaps a fraction of humanity?


E. Who the hell knows?

This is the option that we don't know, that he had some other possibility available that we cannot fathom due to our limited knowledge.  I would add here that apparently the Splintered God cannot see what is really happening and seems blind to what it's other aspects are doing. Again, we don't know shit about this so its all very very vague. If Kellhus was truly an Inverse Prophet that brought knowledge of the living to the Gods, it sure seems like that did nothing to change things.

In other words, it doesn't seem possible that Earwa's deities are going to do and about face and stop being such raging dickheads.

____

At the end of the day, things are not good no matter what. Either slaughter humanity and become BFFs with rape aliens and ancient depraved lunatics, Run wild with a crazy 4 Horned brother and turn the living world into Hell, or at best achieve status quo and leave things as they are... and run the 95% chance you are going to Hell.



Damn, Earwa sucks.

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