The Second Apocalypse
Earwa => General Earwa => Topic started by: Madness on May 25, 2016, 10:07:25 pm
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So... what does everyone think of TGO rollout process so far? As a curious student of social systems, how they form and disseminate information, I'm interested to hear everyone's different experiences recounted. What's worked, possibly working, could work better?
I feel like seeing as there are up to three more possible reviews than just Pat's for a contemporary release, plus Grimdark and Grim Tidings Podcast soon to come ARC giveaways, the Hotlist and Grim Tidings interviews, and a possible Reddit AMA before release that there's been an incrementally (by no means best possible) better push for Bakker this release.
Thoughts?
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Add this to the list: a series of original promo illustrations (5 in total), released through Overlook's social media at one week intervals, starting June 6, on the run-up to the release date of TGO. Accompanying each are quotes relevant to the images. Basically, full-page ads promoting the book.
I never really paid attention to releases and hype surrounding them. So, all this static in the airwaves seems like a lot of 'good press' to me. I can only hope it's not all pandering to the in-group already waiting for the book, and it actually entices people who are unfamiliar with, or had been resistant to, the series previously. Fingers crossed.
In terms of what could be done better... official marketing and/or promotions? Contests (a la, fanfic, fanart, etc.). Dare I say more author/fan interaction on a sustained/sustainable level? That's probably the most important one, tbh. Being accessible. Mark Lawrence comes to mind. The guy is prolific, and interacts regularly with his fan-base. I realize our man is not that sort, but still... Maybe he needs a PA, someone in charge of making sure there's some kind of regular communication between the top of the mountain and the masses gathered at its base.
Rambling.
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Lol - just seeing your name reminded me to I forgot to mention. There have also been two - huge! - excerpts and a stellar trailer made, in part, by our very own, Somnambulist ;).
Add this to the list: a series of original promo illustrations (5 in total), released through Overlook's social media at one week intervals, starting June 6, on the run-up to the release date of TGO. Accompanying each are quotes relevant to the images. Basically, full-page ads promoting the book.
Congrats and congrats, Som. I can't wait to see that connection come to fruition.
I never really paid attention to releases and hype surrounding them. So, all this static in the airwaves seems like a lot of 'good press' to me. I can only hope it's not all pandering to the in-group already waiting for the book, and it actually entices people who are unfamiliar with, or had been resistant to, the series previously. Fingers crossed.
Well - I mean, data is sparse. Firstly because the portion of the fandom that participates online across all mediums is probably a disparagingly low percentage of his book-buying readership. There is also probably a percentage of that book-buying readership that lurks online but doesn't participate leading to the second data problem, which is declaration. I don't care for information gathering but we don't know enough to gauge, other than what people post about themselves and their book-buying intent and the demographics different mediums provide about those participants.
Wilshire and I have talked about the "all press is good press." I'd have to see some numbers to form a better opinion. Of the differing mediums ("places people talk about Bakker on the internet"), I'd say that reddit clearly has the most vocal number of those who like the series, don't like the series, but more importantly have not read the books, read only PON, or tried reading part-way into the saga and stopped for reasons other than not loving the series. Westeros has been occupied entirely by either the "Outside" scene from the Ch. 1 excerpt or the "Whale-Mothers" from Pat's (so far unidentified numbered) chapter excerpt - the latter clearly dominating the conversation and not to benefit of Bakker or, more importantly, "possible new reader's random exposure to Bakker by way of the eternal thread on Westeros." And we're basically the worst - despite Somnambulist and MG doing real outreach work - as there is very little discussion of the reviews or excerpts here because 60% and quickly rising (of our content-generating regulars) have already read ARCs and so disappeared I know not where for fear of infecting those who remain and those who lurk with their pollution ;).
GJ's poisoned me, what with his pointing out our mutual affection for hyperbole recently :P.
In terms of what could be done better... official marketing and/or promotions? Contests (a la, fanfic, fanart, etc.). Dare I say more author/fan interaction on a sustained/sustainable level? That's probably the most important one, tbh. Being accessible. Mark Lawrence comes to mind. The guy is prolific, and interacts regularly with his fan-base. I realize our man is not that sort, but still... Maybe he needs a PA, someone in charge of making sure there's some kind of regular communication between the top of the mountain and the masses gathered at its base.
Rambling.
Not rambling and you know from our conversations otherwise that I am quick to cite Lawrence, then Abercrombie, as the best at online interactions with fandom.
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I can't say I ever paid attention to any book pre-release like this, so I have no idea.
At least it's something. It hints at real efforts to sell books, which is nice.
I'm not sure how much rabble rousing you can do for book 5 of 6... but I'm glad there is something out there.
My guess is giveaways generate the most publicity, so tying one to GdM and others is great.
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Well as an idea to raise his profile on book 5 and 6 when the Unholy Consult comes out I think we should try to get the Aspect Emperor series nominated for a Hugo award not sure if the Judging Eye or White Luck Warrior have been nominated before but if they haven't we can get the series as a whole nominated.
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I can't say I ever paid attention to any book pre-release like this, so I have no idea.
Right - I likewise can only compare it to previous Bakker releases (my understanding of musical album rollouts is much more informed). Traditionally, Pat's Fantasy Hotlist has been it regarding promotion and as I understand it that was Bakker's doing entirely - nothing on the part of his publishers previously. That "traditionally" would be an excerpt, interview, and review basically right as they are happening now (Pat's review and excerpt are up and the interview is "being sat upon to look at with fresh eyes" - whatever that means regarding a published time-frame).
At least it's something. It hints at real efforts to sell books, which is nice.
I'm not sure how much rabble rousing you can do for book 5 of 6... but I'm glad there is something out there.
Well, if there's rabble to rouse, it's been done on our parts, I think. There's another recent thread (https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/4l8qgd/would_the_r_scott_bakker_fans_please_stand_up/) on r/fantasy revealing even more of that hitherto untapped population of Bakker fans. I do hope Bakker commits to an AMA.
My guess is giveaways generate the most publicity, so tying one to GdM and others is great.
Yeah. Grim Tidings and Grimdark Magazine are all borne of the same soup - the facebook group "Grimdark Fiction Readers & Writers," I believe, but it's great that there are ARC giveaways. I think Pat's excerpt could have been chosen to leverage Bakker's exceptional prose to garner new readers rather than dealing out morsels for those heavily invested already but Overlook went with a safe play on the prologue and chapter one at Grimdark Mag so mayhaps together the excerpts serve both purposes of appeasing the fandom and attracting new readers.
It recalls Somnambulist's author interaction comment above - on ZTS, during the two years that TWP and TTT came out, it's evident that Bakker was traveling to promote the book, doing signings, interviews (even one mentioned on ET Canada, which I can't find online - haven't looked hard enough), and randomly sending books to fans on the forum.
Well as an idea to raise his profile on book 5 and 6 when the Unholy Consult comes out I think we should try to get the Aspect Emperor series nominated for a Hugo award not sure if the Judging Eye or White Luck Warrior have been nominated before but if they haven't we can get the series as a whole nominated.
I don't think Bakker's been nominated for many awards - mostly, I think, because nominations have never coincided with releases?
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It recalls Somnambulist's author interaction comment above - on ZTS, during the two years that TWP and TTT came out, it's evident that Bakker was traveling to promote the book, doing signings, interviews (even one mentioned on ET Canada, which I can't find online - haven't looked hard enough), and randomly sending books to fans on the forum.
I'm always jealous of tales from that particular past. Signings and book giveaways... alas.
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Lol - right?
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Surely a choice quote from the author could help steer the feminist twitter sphere into forgetting that real people are being killed every day in the real world and help focus media attention on a book with dragons ?
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Lol - there's a comment by a redditor that highlights this sentiment nicely: "God save us from those who think fiction is the primary means by which people are oppressed."
But it doesn't necessarily invalidate the criticisms so much as maybe his work just might?
Who would you wish to blurb the next book, Omnirom? (Aside, from the fact that if Esslemont has a Editorial Review at Amazon, he very well may be the blurb.)
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Lol - there's a comment by a redditor that highlights this sentiment nicely: "God save us from those who think fiction is the primary means by which people are oppressed."
That is such a beautiful quote. The "god save us" part didn't register at first; brilliant.
But it doesn't necessarily invalidate the criticisms so much as maybe his work just might?
No energy or inclination to fight this fight now. Just hope that not one character of the text was influenced by auto-invalidated thought fascists.
Who would you wish to blurb the next book, Omnirom? (Aside, from the fact that if Esslemont has a Editorial Review at Amazon, he very well may be the blurb.)
Functionally GRRM. Another 100,000 nodes which have processed Bakker in the world would make it a better, more effective place.
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Lol - there's a comment by a redditor that highlights this sentiment nicely: "God save us from those who think fiction is the primary means by which people are oppressed."
That is such a beautiful quote. The "god save us" part didn't register at first; brilliant.
Just something I stole from someone more articulate than I :).
But it doesn't necessarily invalidate the criticisms so much as maybe his work just might?
No energy or inclination to fight this fight now. Just hope that not one character of the text was influenced by auto-invalidated thought fascists.
Lol - I personally don't think it influenced The Second Apocalypse narrative, past, present, or future. I know it influenced some of his past (future?) yet to be released writings (in ways that I think are both peripheral and inconsequential but will placate those kinds of criticisms).
Who would you wish to blurb the next book, Omnirom? (Aside, from the fact that if Esslemont has a Editorial Review at Amazon, he very well may be the blurb.)
Functionally GRRM. Another 100,000 nodes which have processed Bakker in the world would make it a better, more effective place.
Agreed. Seems like it would yield dividends to a greater swatch of humanity and our interaction with Reality.
EDIT: Though, if we can't have GRRM, I'd love if MG's bakkerfans quote graced the cover 8)!
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EDIT: Though, if we can't have GRRM, I'd love if MG's bakkerfans quote graced the cover 8)!
jajaja, great call !
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Who would you wish to blurb the next book
Thinking about this more, Umberto Eco could have been interesting; intellectually closer and likely to have helped attract a very different set of readers than GRRM.
Alas, it's a few months too late.
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I'm halfway through Name of the Rose right now. A philosophy prof recommended it to me years and years ago and I only remembered to pick it up the day after Eco died (and started reading it a week or so ago on and off).
Really good book.
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I'm probably the wrong person to ask. I've checked for updates maybe twice a month usually the first thing I do on my commute to work. This was when there was no news at all. So basically everything has worked for me since I make it a point to scour the internet for such information.
This is probably why I the most relevant information for me these past few weeks was to realize that there were advance copies floating around the world after reading about the contest... Which naturally made me check Ebay... Which naturally...
On another note, I read Bakker won't do book signings. Is there no way to get autographed copies any other way?
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He isn't doing a signing tour for TGO, and he doesn't do private requests. He does, from time to time, appear publicly and do signings, but they are rare and not generally conveniently located. You'll be hard pressed to get a signature on your own, and there are only a few signed copies floating around ebay. I have no advice, other than, if he's going to be somewhere, we'll be geeking out about it here.
4+ years ago I drove several hours from NY through Canada to some university to hear him do a reading. Afterwards, about 10 of the 30ish people had books for him to sign. That's the last known appearance/signing I've heard of.
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Lol - I was thinking on the anniversary for TGO we could just rent a hall instead, Wilshire. Same plan, but ship a couple hundred copies of TUC ;).
Welcome to the Second Apocalypse (again), MisterGuyMan :).
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Lol - I was thinking on the anniversary for TGO we could just rent a hall instead, Wilshire. Same plan, but ship a couple hundred copies of TUC ;).
Zaudunyanicon - June 2017? I hope it's within driving distance for me since I'll have so many books I'll want signed at that point.
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I would love a complete set of signed first editions. I've jettisoned most of my book collection after switching to Kindle almost exclusively. I've only kept Song of Ice and Fire books and naturally my Second Apocalypse books. I don't even know what to do with the ASOIAF books since the first editions changed style midway and they now look weird together. Plus I think the HBO series is becoming the definitive edition anyway.
Contrast to that my love for Second Apocalypse keeps growing. I'm looking through all the art trying to see if there's a way to make a custom Khellus figure somehow at the moment. Signed books would make a display like that complete.
Does Bakker still frequent the boards? Maybe we can kickstarter this hall rental idea.
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Zaudunyanicon - June 2017? I hope it's within driving distance for me since I'll have so many books I'll want signed at that point.
I figure there are halls in Ohio. Hell, I'll bet ya one of those golf clubs GJ and I want to go to must do catering ;).
Does Bakker still frequent the boards? Maybe we can kickstarter this hall rental idea.
Bakker has never frequented this board - though, I'm hoping he will in the future because we're obviously the best board ;). I mean, Three-Seas only exists as a Zombie (http://forum.three-seas.com/) now and Westeros is a board for GRRM...
And I think Bakker fans can come together and have transparent accounting without the need for kickstarter... but I don't know - people seem to find comfort in kickstarters, etc. I just abhor handing something like a third of the collected money to the middle man.
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Didn't know where to post this, figured here was as good as I was going to find. I read somewhere that Bakker has lost his editor with Overlook. Will this effect the publishing date for TGO? I imagine she couldn't handle the atrocities we find so delightful, or something like that, lol. Or, was she a feminist? Come on, I want theories, speculation and whatever answers you've got!
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He lost his editor(s) last year, this year (ie most recently) was his publicist. I'm guessing it won't have much of an effect.
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I was a member of a board that was dedicated to the writings of Steve Donaldson (Thomas Covenant series). Although I didn't end up attending, a group of members (probably 10 or 20 people) from that board set up a meeting in New Mexico (Where Donaldson resides) with Donaldson near where he lived. They essentially just made reservations at a local bar/restaurant and Donaldson was kind enough and cool enough to agree to come and have some food, beers and conversation with a few of his most dedicated fans. This was in 2002 I think.
Bakker seems like an easy going guy. Why not see if he would be interested in grabbing beers and food with some of his fans at a local eatery in London, Ontario or some other place of his choosing? Who turns down free beer?!?!
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True, and given favorable exchange rates from USD to CND, it would be cheaper for any of us in the US. Perhaps as the release of TUC draws closer, we will figure something out.
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Where does Bakker live? The Unholy Consult release was, last I heard, aiming for a year end 2016 date. That would be a good time to set something like this. End of the middle series and gives a little time to plan it out. How do we contact him?
BakkerCon!
Didn't know where to post this, figured here was as good as I was going to find. I read somewhere that Bakker has lost his editor with Overlook. Will this effect the publishing date for TGO? I imagine she couldn't handle the atrocities we find so delightful, or something like that, lol. Or, was she a feminist? Come on, I want theories, speculation and whatever answers you've got!
Not a problem. I can edit all his future books. Pro Bono even. I'd even go above and beyond and peek into his notes for the final trilogy.
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Where does Bakker live? The Unholy Consult release was, last I heard, aiming for a year end 2016 date. That would be a good time to set something like this. End of the middle series and gives a little time to plan it out.
TUC release is supposed to be about 1 year from the release of TGO, so the current best guess would be July 2017.
How do we contact him?
There is a contact page on his rscottbakker.com website (I've never had any luck with that), and there is always open comments on his blog Three Pound Brain (which is hit or miss, but sometimes he does respond to random things).
I once tried to look him up in the canadian yellowpages equivalent, but to no avail. I was driving through the area and wanted to stop by :P.
BakkerCon!
No no, its Zaudunyanicon :) . It was dubbed thusly a few years ago.
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If only we knew someone who could get in touch with Bakker and get his thoughts on the possibility!
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If only we knew someone who could get in touch with Bakker and get his thoughts on the possibility!
Maybe when TUC approaches, or sometime after. I imagine its going to be a busy year for Bakker.
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We should just turn up at his house, Madness knows where it is.
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We should just turn up at his house, Madness knows where it is.
I'm sure there are only like 15 residential houses in all of London. We'll just go door to door if it comes to that.
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Lol - I'll definitely pitch it to Bakker in the future when memponti arises.