Miscellaneous Chatter > The Forum of Interesting Things
Conspiracy or paranoia?
Royce:
What is your take on this? Do you think they exist? If yes, is there one or many?
People who are into this stuff, are often regarded as nuts or paranoid folks with to much time on their hands. Is that something
you agree with?
What is your favorite conspiracy(if you have one)?
I am in the middle of "The Illuminatus trilogy" and that inspired me to open the door for some discussion around this love/hate subject:)
Duskweaver:
A close relative used to work for one of my country's intelligence services. So I have reason to know that what governments and the media present as the official story is often very far from reality. But most of the things people generally think of when you say "conspiracy theory" are just bunk.
As a general rule, the conspiracies that are some variation on "the CIA/MI6 assassinated a person who officially committed suicide/died in a tragic accident" are the ones I find the most plausible. The ones that propose some grand international, multigenerational conspiracy are rather less so, because the people involved just aren't that clever, frankly.
The best guide is probably to work out the minimum number of people that would be required to know about the conspiracy in order to make it work. If the answer is more than a handful, you're stretching credulity.
Assassinations require rather fewer people to know the truth than you'd think, though. Because you subcontract the initial hit to some random thugs, then have a second team (usually your true professionals) eliminate them. Obviously, you don't tell the second team why the first team have to be removed, and once they've done their work, nobody other than you is left alive who knows that the original subject was assassinated.
As the old saying goes: "Two people can keep a secret... if one of them is dead."
Madness:
And worse yet are that those small pockets of secrecy like Duskweaver describes are distributed exponentially across one of the most (the most) unaccountable black operations hierarchy in history. Too many people, making too many decisions about what constitutes extreme threat.
It's probably just a terrible version of spy vs. spy out there, with threats being other undercover operates from different organizational tentacles.
Lol - sometime, I'll regale you, Royce.
I like possibility and imagining the craziest extremes used to be a game of mine for some time. Astound people with alternative "knowledge." Most conspiracies are either exactly the devious ploys they conspire to be or just the super-complex tripping over each other humans do.
--- Quote from: Duskweaver on January 04, 2014, 09:39:49 pm ---As the old saying goes: "Two people can keep a secret... if one of them is dead."
--- End quote ---
That was attributed to Benjamin Franklin, in The 33 Strategies of War by Robert Greene, which I just finished a week ago: "Three people can keep a secret... if one of them is dead."
Royce:
--- Quote ---A close relative used to work for one of my country's intelligence services. So I have reason to know that what governments and the media present as the official story is often very far from reality. But most of the things people generally think of when you say "conspiracy theory" are just bunk.
--- End quote ---
This is where I am at too. The famous JFK assassination is really confusing. Oswald killed, Ruby killed, Cubans, Russians, mafia and lots of other distractions. Obviously something other than the official story happened. A very attractive conspiracy theory:)
I was very fascinated by conspiracies about 10-12 years ago. I was so fed up with lying politicians, equally lying and annoying mass media, combined with the events at 9/11 and the Iraq war. So I nosedived in the opposite direction, falling right into the lap of the illuminati, annunaki aliens, masons, rosicrucians, the knight templars and so on. After a while I almost went nuts. One theory crazier than the other, and it just went deeper and deeper. Finally I climbed up to the surface again, and never looked back. It is frightening
when you realize first hand how easily humans can be fooled into believing almost anything. So I accepted that these theories are just as (un)likely as the official stories out there. what are we left with then? A crazy and fascinating
world full of contradictions and confusion.
Anyway, my favorite must be the "no planers". These guys says there were no planes hitting WTC. Just planted nukes, no planes.
The media fabricated the footage of the planes flying into the buildings. Plausible? I think not:) Come on, no fucking planes??
Duskweaver:
--- Quote from: Madness on January 05, 2014, 01:52:01 pm ---one of the most (the most) unaccountable black operations hierarchy in history. Too many people, making too many decisions about what constitutes extreme threat.
--- End quote ---
The sad thing is that this is probably the only way it can work. And forget oversight by elected representatives. There are some (many) things that have to be kept secret even (or especially) from them.
The only meaningful safeguard is to ensure, as far as possible, that the nuttiest ideologues are kept far away from the decision-making positions. The CIA has, of course, historically been really, really bad at that. MI6 seems to have done rather better at it (although that may just be my pro-UK/anti-US bias).
--- Quote ---That was attributed to Benjamin Franklin
--- End quote ---
It certainly predates him. The 16th century writer George Cavendish (in his Thomas Wolsey, Late Cardinall, his Lyffe and Deathe) attributed a version (with slightly different wording) to Henry VIII.
--- Quote from: Royce on January 05, 2014, 07:19:28 pm ---Anyway, my favorite must be the "no planers". These guys says there were no planes hitting WTC. Just planted nukes, no planes.
The media fabricated the footage of the planes flying into the buildings. Plausible? I think not:) Come on, no fucking planes??
--- End quote ---
*Nods* It fails on two fronts. First, it would require a vast number of people to be in on the con. Second, it's just ridiculously more complicated and difficult to pull off than necessary. Inducing a bunch of religious fundamentalist whackadoos to steal a couple of planes and fly them into buildings is orders of magnitude simpler and easier than what the No Planers (and most other 9/11 Truthers) claim happened.
EDIT: This seems appropriate here.
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