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Messages - locke

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1
General Misc. / Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S7)
« on: August 22, 2017, 04:16:48 am »
Heh, the show is running headlong into the thicket of thorns of the westerosi knot. Martin took eleven years and was unable to untangle the meereenese knot and the show seems to believe that getting through the much more complex task of unifying all these storylines in preparation for the white walkers is best achieved as fast as possible as bulldozer as possible.

To be fair, since there is no more political conflict south of the neck, they're kind of forced to kludge through plot points as they no longer have political machinations and schemes to pad the time between plot events, it's somewhat to their credit not to have a bunch of directionless political scheming filler at this point, just direct faction on faction conflicts and alliances. Such a shame dany spent so much time in meereen which is what is creating this current plot bulldozer methodology.

2
General Misc. / [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S7)
« on: August 08, 2017, 06:40:11 pm »
Quote from: Woden on August 08, 2017, 04:34:11 pm
He posted this in his Not a Blog.

He said that we will have one or maybe two books in 2018, but knowing him that is wishful thinking at best. I am pretty sure (and I really want to be wrong) that we will have one book in 2018 but it will be the Targaryen shit and not WoW.
Meereenese knot 2.0 is a tough one to crack

Though I don't believe he ever solved it in the first place, since the show has revealed that the Crux of the knot is the yet to be achieved timing of dany returning with dothraki to win the battle of meereen. In other words he just pushed the central problem to the next book. Remember, the first dany chapter of AdWD was supposed to be the fighting pits where she flies off on drogon, and then she spends the rest of the book subduing the dothraki and returning to meereen. And whilst in this stage of writing before AFFC had been created, Martin was already talking about the meereenese knot.

Once he eliminated the five year gap, he started writing dany chapters to preface her fleeing the city, and each of those chapters further threw off the structure of the book, because other characters now needed more fleshed out journies so dany had time to be motivated to flee meereen. So rather than one prologue chapter introducing Quentin, one introducing Victarian, we get three of each as they go from a to b to c.

Then we get further Tyrian chapters to lengthen his journey to match and then further dorne and iron islands and blackfyre chapters to further flesh out the supporting story for the new storylines, and dany gets more chapters in meereen leading to a snowball effect pushing the central problem of convergence with dothraki to be even more impossible.

Unfortunately, by the point the book has snowballed into this unwieldy mess they made the disastrous decision to split out AFFC. This was a long term disaster because it locked In those chapters. I imagine without it being published he would have rewritten the bulk of it (and much of ADWD ) to be more compact, but instead all of these loose ideas of which character would work as the best pov got made into permanent choices. So rather than Martin deciding between arys oakheart, Arianne, or areo, his perspective options he was exploring were made into permanent selections, and rather than collapse six chapters into three we got six. Same with iron islands.

What got it in publishing shape was using Barristan at the end of the book to unify the various loose plot strands in meereen that all arrived too early. At the very least this created some dramatic resolution

3
General Misc. / Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S7)
« on: August 08, 2017, 04:30:58 pm »
Quote from: Woden on August 08, 2017, 03:31:19 pm
George has announced a new book of Targaryen history, I bet that it's going to be published earlier that Winds of Winter. Seems to me that this new book of Targaryens is going to be the core of the new HBO series and sure George wants to have something tangible to offer them.
We have to asume that finishing ASOIAF is not his priority right now. And it pisses me off badly.
Link?

4
General Misc. / Re: [TV Spoilers] Game of Thrones (S7)
« on: August 07, 2017, 07:06:02 pm »
Quote from: themerchant on July 31, 2017, 02:05:43 am
That was alright. I laughed at Olena talking about Widow's Wail.

Wish i could have read about Jon and Dany meeting instead of watching it on some HBO adaption but there you go.
I feel reasonably certain that Jon and dany will not be meeting until after dany subdued the sothron kingdoms. The show bringing them together, and bringing dany together with all the other power players she met with was a time compression mechanism to allow them to advance multiple storylines at once (by having people together) rather than going the A-B-C-D The books will assuredly take. So the show launches the southern invasion together simultaneously with protracted negotiations with the north, Martin will almost assuredly take half a book to get dany to dragon stone and declare herself, half a book to negotiate with dorne, half a book to launch an invasion of casterly rock and lose high garden, half a book to lose all naval power, all without getting to the Lannister field of fire nor even opening cordial lines of communication between dany and the north.

All of this after Martin spends a book and a half on the irrelevant blackfyre side plot with (f)Aegon.

Right now, I figure these first four episodes have adapted about two books of major plot developments, which is why there is so much teleportation travel going on, because they have to wrap things up within a specific storytelling constraint, and if teleporting travel is necessary to move through the story, I'll take it. As I recall, aragorns army teleported to the gates of morder as return of the king the film was drawing near the end, and this was a fine adaptation solution.

5
Author Q&A / Re: The Rape of Omindalea
« on: August 06, 2017, 05:51:30 am »
So how come this entry is not in The Unholy Consult Glossary?

6
General Earwa / Bakker and Women
« on: August 04, 2017, 10:02:48 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire on August 04, 2017, 07:25:20 pm
Quote from: MSJ on August 04, 2017, 07:14:20 pm
She wants to know whats so good about these books that consume so much of my time and my fascination with them.
If you figure out how to answer that question effectively, please let me know. My loved ones ask this all the time ;).
I tell them that my brain is hard wired with circuits to detect meaning (scripture) and that like game of thrones or lord of the rings, the inherently meaningful nature of the Mileau activates those brain circuits.

You're not one bit different from an evangelical Christian actually, just different scripture sets about meaningful worlds activating identical brain modules in both yourself and the evangelical.

Science has rendered our real world mileau to no longer possess meaning (scriptural) and my brain rebels against that reality by seeking out mileaus that satisfy my brains profound desire for meaning.

7
The Unholy Consult / Re: Apparently, we've missed something about the Consult that we should have noticed
« on: August 01, 2017, 05:04:49 am »
Quote from: tleilaxu on August 01, 2017, 04:06:18 am
Quote from: Cüréthañ on August 01, 2017, 03:39:11 am
Quote from: tleilaxu on August 01, 2017, 03:25:18 am
Maybe the skin-spies are regrafted Mangaecca members?

I doubt the Consult had sufficient mastery of the Tekne at the time, or Shae himself would have gone for that solution.

I do feel like the Wracu (sans Wutteat) are possibly synthetic bodies rehousing souls from a time before the Inchoroi had exhausted that tech.

Perhaps the Mutilated can get some Ghost-in-the-Shell machines working in time for the third series. ;)
Yeah that's true.
I do believe the Dûnyain will start making new Tekne artifacts. Idle hands are the Devil's workshop...
Idle hands? With all the masturbating to do?

8
Author Q&A / Re: Unholy Consultation - *SUPER SPOILERIFIC*
« on: July 31, 2017, 11:02:30 pm »
In The Thousandfold Thought, Kellhus looks at his halos and names them, "The Light of Delusion". Was this a subtle hint that they are literally 'The Light of Ajokli (the deceiver)'?

Was the scene with Serwe's burning heart at the end of The Warrior Prophet possible because of Ajokli's intervention through Kellhus?

Did Cleric retrieve the qirri made from you from the statue of Cujara Cinmoi he encountered in Cil Aujis? Or was he just carrying it with him all these millennia?

Wutteat calls Nil Giccas a "clever Ishroi" when Nil Giccas claims "hell sustains him from within".  What does that mean?

Speaking of, is it pronounced Nil Geek-us or Nil Gick-us?

A lot of people are saying Kelmomas effectively has (and has always had) "invisible to all the gods in all times" superpowers?  Is that correct? that seems... excessive... to me.

I really loved the book. I loved that the chosen one seems to have failed. I have some quibbles (mainly I wanted to see the resolution of the Ishterebinth fight scene cliffhangered at the end of The Great Ordeal, like a TV show with no budget to show us the showdown, it's such a let down to miss this sequence), but for the most part I very much enjoyed the novel and the resolution to this series.


9
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC SPOILERS] The Carapace & The No-God
« on: July 27, 2017, 04:58:29 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire on July 24, 2017, 05:51:45 pm
As it relates to Nau and the No-God, perhaps you're right, and I/we haven't divined other consequences from that revelation
In general it is the timing of dreams, eh? that holds some significance.

So from this dream, we can determine that Seswatha believed himself to possibly be the father of NC.

around this time of this dream, I think Akka discovers Mimara is pregnant.

Akka then believes that he is possibly the father of the baby, just like Seswatha in the dream.

And in many respects, Akka slept with Mimara because she looks like the wife of the emperor, seswatha slept with the wife of the emperor.

10
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC SPOILERS] The Carapace & The No-God
« on: July 26, 2017, 08:51:22 pm »
Quote from: Cüréthañ on July 26, 2017, 08:40:16 pm
Yeah, I don't buy that at all. They are clearly discussing metaphysics, not grammar.
Yeah but the posters above you are saying that in a pre modern construct, grammar is metaphysics.  Literally grammar was once the (magical) glamour.

11
The Unholy Consult / Re: From the TUC Glossary - The Mysterious Deaths of 4121
« on: July 26, 2017, 04:03:51 am »
Loyalists.

Head on a pole behind him. Literal human sacrifices

12
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC SPOILERS] The Carapace & The No-God
« on: July 25, 2017, 09:58:46 pm »
Quote from: Cüréthañ on July 25, 2017, 01:49:06 am
Quote from: Bhaal on July 25, 2017, 12:43:27 am
Anyone here actually thought about the ramifications of what it means that the No-God collapses Subject and Object?

It is the boundary between the real world (objective) and the outside (subjective). Check the glossary entry "Outside" for more clarity.

Quote
In Meta-Analytics, Ajencis argues that it is the relation between subject and object, desire and reality, that underwrites the structure of existence.

Bakker, R. Scott. The Unholy Consult: Book Four of the Aspect-Emperor series (Aspect Emperor 4) (Kindle Locations 10695-10696). Little, Brown Book Group. Kindle Edition.
Except reality = deception, so ajencis should be modified to "it is the relation between subject and object, desire and deception, that underwrites the  structure of existence.

13
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Ajokli and the metaphysical whodunit
« on: July 24, 2017, 04:38:49 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire on July 24, 2017, 04:01:58 pm
Quote from: Cüréthañ on July 20, 2017, 11:39:48 pm
Entertain this interpretation and the narrative structure of Aspect Emperor slowly starts to makes complete sense. The Judging Eye was never primarily concerned with Kellhus, it has manifested to witness the end of the world and the birth of a God. Kelmomas is Ajokli's narindar -- or are we really to believe that he just happens to be in the right place at the right time to defeat Yatwer's White Luck not once but twice, and then is critical to Kellhus' betrayal AND ensuring that Resumption happens? I'm 100% that Ajokli knew he was there because he put him there, despite what Malowebi, the Consult and Kelmomas think.

Curethan, glad to have you posting in full force.

This bit, specifically, is a fascinating interpretation to me. Its dramatically different, maybe entirely opposite, of how I viewed Kelmomas' and Ajokli's relationship, yet it makes a lot of sense. Will have to wait a few days before I can comment appropriately though.


btw, I agree, too much digression from the thread. Will probably move around some posts, maybe something more explicitly about Ajokli, rather than just Diamos generally.
That's funny, because we are in agreement, Wilshire, and until curethan posted I seem to be the only person that thinks ajokli triumphant was the result of the golden room. It is in his nature to betray and he chose the most magnificent moment for kellhus to be betrayed. Granted, it seems plausible that kellhus is hiding in the other head, but I do not think kellhus has any more agency than malowebi does if he is trapped in the head. And even this seems somewhat implausible as ajokli manifested out of that head otoh, perhaps that leaves a vacuum.

I would point out that I think that the relationship between kellhus and ajokli changes our understanding of TTT and the three books of the aspect emperor. When kellhus sees the halos and recognizes "the light of delusion" delusion is functioning as an identifier synonym for ajokli, literally , "the light of ajokli"

Likewise when moenghus asks kellhus why kellhus refers to the consult with terms like wicked etc "these words are mechanisms of control" we now should understand that kellhus is using them because of ajoklis influence that this may in fact be a manifestation of ajokli within this encounter as he seeks understanding of that which is beyond the eschaton. And also yes they are mechanisms of control and ajokli is controlling kellhus.

14
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers]The Incû-Holoinas
« on: July 12, 2017, 02:29:03 am »
I agree that NC as a child of seswatha was a goad from the mutilated who were manipulating Akkas dreams. It's exactly the sort of lie Akka would want to believe and it should braid him tighter to mimara as he associates himself with seswatha because of the dream he'll now associate the child with NC.

As for ark. I agree ark has / had a soul. But ark is functionally a quadrapelegic since the crash onto earwa, unable to use any of its capacity, totally limited to the accidental awakening of sil et al.

There is a decent chance that if the figure from the circumfix dream is not ajokli then it could be Ark. kellhus seems to think it is the no god, and the no god is the sarcophagus. And the sarcophagus is Ark.

Perhaps the relevant point of comparison is Shae, who has managed to sustain a horrific existence for millennia despite being functionally crippled and near death. Ark is probably in a similar state and perhaps this is why ark spoke with kellhus in such limited fashion.

If Ark needs humans close to the absolute for system resumption as has been suggested upthread then this would indicate that Ark may have been behind the establishment of the dunyain, their ethos, and why they were founded (they were founded to achieve system resumption with purpose bred humans)

15
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC SPOILERS] Thoughts about the overall story, ending etc
« on: July 11, 2017, 12:51:41 am »
Quote from: MSJ on July 10, 2017, 10:37:01 pm
So, anyway we slice it, right now Kellhus is a God/Ciphrang on the Outside, right? His soul had to go somewhere and he died before the resurrection of the No-God. So, maybe all is not lost for Kellhus.
No. It's a reasonable guess , but my take was that ajokli harvested kellhus.

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