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Messages - Cynical Cat

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181
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Momemn
« on: August 23, 2016, 07:12:57 pm »
What Meppa tells Fanayal and what Meppa screams at the man he hates the most in the universe can be two different things.  He also might not have been lying.  He's clearly traumatized.  He might not really remember much of his life before his family was killed.  He's on his way to being an Erratic without being a Nonman.

Kellhous isn't fighting this fight for the quick win.  He's got it in the bag because as powerful as Meppa is Kellhous is the greatest Metagnostic Sorcerer alive.  He's methodically examining his foes and then dispatching them as he sees fit.  Even Meppa, for all his power, crumples the moment the Metagnosis is unleashed against him.

182
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Momemn
« on: August 23, 2016, 11:16:48 am »
The phrase "Such Power" is directed at Meppa.  Malowebi's hasn't matched his power against anyone at this point, merely defended himself, while Kellhus has been struck directly by Meppa's wrath.  Meppa is described in the text as "the last and the most brilliant expression of Psukhe".  He's literally the most powerful Cishaurim ever to live.  Given that passion is linked to how much Water can be born, yes Meppa's rage and grief are part of the reason he's so damn strong. 

183
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO Spoilers] Whale Mothers
« on: August 23, 2016, 11:03:55 am »
And it would have made Requires Only Hate that much madder.

Not possible since Requires Hate just manufactured reasons to attack people with social justice flavored rants.  Fun note, most of Requires Hates targets were minorities, women, or both. 

184
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO Spoilers] Kelmomas Skills
« on: August 21, 2016, 11:30:53 am »
On the subject of skin spies and having souls, it's a rare occurrence.  Scott's also mentioned that whales and great apes occasionally have souls as well.  This is consistent.  We are talking about highly intelligent creatures, albeit ones ruled by instinct.  The exceptional one whose intellect is great enough to possess some self awareness has a soul while its lesser brothers and sisters do not. 

As for Kelmomas, I have this way out of left field crackpot idea that he's going to end up part of the No-God and is thus invisible.  I don't really believe it, but the possibility won't lie down and die.

185
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO Spoilers] Whale Mothers
« on: August 21, 2016, 08:58:35 am »
I'm now curious how Kel even knew what a woman was the first time he met one.


Bred for intellect.  And breasts.  ;)  You don't have to be a Dunyain to figure out the humanoid with breasts is female.

186
Atrocity Tales / Re: Titirga - Cishaurim, Gnostic and Daimotic?
« on: August 19, 2016, 05:37:26 am »
They are also not the only ones capable of using the Metagnosis.  The current Grandmaster of the Mandate is mentioned as the first person besides the Aspect-Emperor to successfully utter a Metagnostic Cant.

187
The Great Ordeal / Re: (TGO SPOILERS) Ishterebinth
« on: August 19, 2016, 05:30:54 am »
That's why the last two sentences of my last post are so open ended.  We know as a school the Mangaecca were obsessed with cheating death and avoiding damnation.  The scene with Shaeonanra is the only time we've seen on the Mangaecca post exile.  Of course Shaeonanra is going to get the cool titles and curse names, he's their leader, but we don't know how representative his fate is of the rest of the Mangaecca or if he transitioned to something else.  The Consults increased mastery of  the Tekne may allow other options.  I'm sure Scott is going to show us something truly appalling (and perhaps combat capable) before the end.

188
The Great Ordeal / Re: (TGO SPOILERS) Ishterebinth
« on: August 19, 2016, 05:09:49 am »
That's true.  "Psst-Hey want the Gnosis, Immortality, and safety from damnation?" might tempt more than a few Schoolmen to turning coat.  We know so little about the skirmishing the Consult agents that its hard to say about them.  They could have been the Consult working mischief with Synthese and Cants of Compulsion, buying the help of ignorant patsies, or something more.  We don't know.  We've never seen, in any of the flashbacks, any Consult mages other than Erratics and the Inchoroi, but that isn't definitive.  Obviously it's hard to fight if your soul is falling between the bodies of crippled old men, but the Consult is inventive in its atrocities.  The Mangaecca may have managed a way to take the field when they have to.

189
The Great Ordeal / Re: (TGO SPOILERS) Ishterebinth
« on: August 19, 2016, 04:58:23 am »
I thought we've heard somewhere that the Consult had a few thousand Erratics on their side. I could be making it up, but I thought Bakker said that at one time.

Actually, I'm rereading the book and have just come to that point.  Oinaral Lastborn tells Sorweel that thousands have gone over to the Consult.  Plucking a few numbers out of thin air that could mean thousands means two thousand and twenty-five percent of them are Quya then that's five hundred Quya mages minus however many got killed at Ishual.  The numbers could obviously be much, much worse.

The Mangaecca numbered around thirty when they were outlawed which is the only time numbers have been given for them.  They don't seem to have much opportunity to recruit and we haven't had any evidence of them directly taking the field.  They may no longer be capable of it, but they might have worked out some atrocious way of managing.  They seem to leave the fighting to their minions. 

There is, of course, also the case of the Wracu if Mog-Pheru is resurrected.  All in all, Kellhous seems to need everyone he can lay his hands on.

190
The Great Ordeal / Re: (TGO SPOILERS) Ishterebinth
« on: August 18, 2016, 05:18:56 pm »
^ It's possible but I wouldn't discount the tactical advantage of the Quya. Once the Inchoroi twins and Mangeacca take the field, all those Anagogic schools won't mean shit.

Yes they will.  The Anagogic Schoolmen are weaker than the Consult and its Erratics, but there are literally hundreds of them and the Consult has only so many sorcerers.  Everyone they lose to being ganged up on by Anagogics is just as gone as one cooked by the Gnosis.

191
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO Spoilers] Whale Mothers
« on: August 18, 2016, 10:39:24 am »
That's an important recurrent theme in the series. It's very blatant in particular in that segment at Mengedda when Saubon asks his groom "Is good simply good because God wills it?" or something along those lines. If it is, then the statement is indistinguishable for all practical purposes from "Might makes right".

I agree absolutely.  The question is actually closer "Is something right just because the gods ask it?" and the answer, according to Kesult's memories of the Tusk is "no." 

192
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Aorsi/Dagliash
« on: August 18, 2016, 10:36:29 am »
It's going to be a slow process unless fold space and burn a world in a day or something like that.  It'll be faster with FTL, slower without it but either way we don't know.  "Countless worlds" could mean dozens, it could mean billions.  We don't know how many worlds the Inchoroi have ravaged or how long they've been at it.

I wasn't suggesting that they were the Nail of Heaven, but that they were coming from the direction of the Nail of Heaven.  The go to that star system, do their evil thing, and then head to Earwa.  When they get close, the drive flare makes the Nail seem visibly brighter and they try to land on a pillar of nuclear fire.  Things go wrong and whammo, buried Ark.

193
The Great Ordeal / Re: (TGO SPOILERS) Ishterebinth
« on: August 18, 2016, 05:17:20 am »

They're all going to be damn horrified when they meet up with the Ordeal, though.

Maybe.  I'm not so sure after seeing the Gloom in Istererbinth.   They don't have to leave home to see horrific things happening to people they care more about than humans.  As an alternate possibility, the state of the Great Ordeal might be so horrific that it stirs up memories of the Second Apocalypse of the Cujo-Inchoroi Wars and thus make the Nonmen more sane.

194
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Aorsi/Dagliash
« on: August 18, 2016, 05:13:28 am »
The Ark is more than large enough to be a generation ship and the Inchoroi were effectively immortal.  That means FTL is not required for genocidal star hopping.  The brightening of the Nail of Heaven and the light that proceeded the fall of the Ark could be the drive flare of massive engines, decelerating. 

195
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO Spoilers] Whale Mothers
« on: August 18, 2016, 05:05:18 am »
I do think going so hard in for the misogyny is a mistake.  Sure there were ancient societies as bad (the Assyrians managed to be worse than the Greeks and the Romans who managed to pretty much push women out of public life), but not all of them were, and its just so god damn relentless its almost numbing.  A little variety would help the rest of it keep the impact.  It's not like the Dunyain don't do other horrible shit.  Anyone filled with joy about how they treat their defectives?  No, I didn't think so.

As for the Judging Eye, it's pretty clear that the judgement of God is nothing to yearn for.  Absolute morality means that the circumstances of your life and your decisions have no impact on how your judge.  Your beliefs about right and wrong have no impact.  The best reasoning of the wisest moral philosophers is worthless.  The only standard that matters is that which is upheald by an inhuman tyrant who punishes those that break its arbitrary rules with eternal damnation irregardless of weather or not those rules are just or not or that its victims even knew the proper rule set.  The Nonmen and Inchoroi seek to avoid God for very good reasons.

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