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Messages - EkyannusIII

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61
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Nonmen Society
« on: April 26, 2015, 04:07:52 pm »

This also makes the case that virtually every other "ensouled" being in the Bakkerverse (which the Inchoroi prove can exist without originating from Earwa) is likely damned. So basically an inconceivable amount of souls in that universe are going to Hell for the simple fact that they did not evolve on Earwa, and thus have no way of even beginning to understand which acts are sins and which are not.

Why would this be the case? The examples of real sin we have from the text (rape, murder and theft, prostitution) are pretty easily known to be sins by humans; what would prevent similar congruities arising on other worlds?

62
General Earwa / Re: The Dûnyain
« on: April 26, 2015, 04:01:42 pm »
Why does the Outside get to measure the Inside using its own standards, but the Inside doesn't get to judge the Outside?

...

Because the Outside created the Inside, which has no being or reality apart from what the Outside gives it, and which is literally nothing of itself?  There is no possibility of parity in such a relationship.

63
General Earwa / Re: The Dûnyain
« on: February 28, 2015, 03:51:42 am »
Because the Outside is mad.

As measured by what, if not itself or the Inside, which the Outside is already measuring?

64
General Earwa / Re: The Dûnyain
« on: February 28, 2015, 03:32:25 am »
We need Mimara to see Kellhus with the Judging Eye to truly know if Kellhus is objectively holy or insane (being one might mean being the other, too, that won't be so easy to find out).

In a world where gods are real and morality is baked in to the universe, how could holiness be anything but the pinnacle of sanity?

65
General Earwa / Re: The Dûnyain
« on: February 26, 2015, 10:44:19 pm »
Interesting, though I still think at least initially that the word came from Dúnedain.

I now agree with this opinion, I had forgotten about the Dunedain until just last night.  And now I log in on a whim and find this post! A great correspondence of cause!

66
At the risk of speculation, it is entirely possible that Overlook contracts out the physical production of their books and has no knowledge that whatever printer they hired for the job botched it like this. Physically printing the book is almost like the production of a commodity, far less demanding of individual attention than cover design, let alone editing.

67
General Earwa / Re: Dune (Frank Herbert) and TSA (Bakker)
« on: January 29, 2015, 10:17:40 pm »
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Inchoroi with their womb-Ark and other Tekne artifacts seem a better candidate for both Tleilaxu and Ix.  Mentats and Bene Gesserit are better mapped onto the Dunyain.

Well, Bakker has been quoted up-thread as saying that the Inchoroi owe nothing to the Tleilaxu. But I guess you can disagree with that.

I suppose that proves me wrong, but I only read the new posts and this thread was started in June 2013. I can't say I feel guilty. ;)

68
General Earwa / Re: Dune (Frank Herbert) and TSA (Bakker)
« on: January 29, 2015, 12:19:42 am »
The Tleilaxu were masters of new science and technological advancement. I can't decide if the Dunyain would fall into that category (aside from the tanks of course, and the mysterious absence of dunyain women).

Inchoroi with their womb-Ark and other Tekne artifacts seem a better candidate for both Tleilaxu and Ix.  Mentats and Bene Gesserit are better mapped onto the Dunyain.

Given that the Ixians
(click to show/hide)

69
General Earwa / Re: Dune (Frank Herbert) and TSA (Bakker)
« on: January 29, 2015, 12:17:34 am »
Possible Dune reference: 

The Guild Navigators "fold space" in order to briefly associate two points in space as identical, thus permitting instantaneous movement across interstellar distances.  If you read the first scene in which Kellhus translocates, in TTT right after his chat with Papa Moe, it says that Kellhus "sang a cant in three voices."  I think this is a concept of travel akin to that the Navigators use because of the explicit mention of three voices: one to describe the starting point in terms of the onta, another to describe the destination, and the third to momentarily join them so the cantor can move instantly. 

This is all extreme supposition of course.

70
General Earwa / Re: What If...
« on: January 15, 2015, 06:59:03 pm »
What if Kellhus faked the destruction of Ishual and secretly evacuated the Dunyain to a new hidden fortress somewhere in the south, much further from the Consult which is now actively looking for them with several good leads.

I'm partial to the idea that they are all in the Nonmen mansion beneath Kyudea where he met Papa Moe.  No one else seems to have known it was there except Moe (dead), Cnaiur (dead), not!Serwe (status unknown) and Kellhus.  In any case, it is clearly a more defensible location since the Consult would have to stage an invasion across the Three Seas to reach it, rather than letting some Yoke Legions loose in the mountains of northern nowhere.

71
General Earwa / Re: What If...
« on: January 15, 2015, 06:55:42 pm »
what if Kellhus is just the latest installment of a Dunyain tradition: send an Anasurimbor into the wild every 30ish years telling him only that his father has gone before him

it would be cool if we meet a son/daughter of kellhus from ishual!

So delicious.

72
The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Side Effects of Eating Sranc
« on: January 14, 2015, 10:53:07 pm »
Fine points.  I would add that the one army that is destroyed was the one populated by Nilnameshii and backed by the Vokalati, who were the factions most recently added to the Empire and thus the least tamed elements of Kellhus' forces.  It's the Vulgar Holy War all over again.

73
General Earwa / Re: What would you like to ask Bakker?
« on: January 11, 2015, 01:25:34 am »
No, it's because the appendix said he had a male lover,

The appendix was published two books after Inrau and Proyas first come to our attention and was referring to his room mate (Sancla) when Akka was in school.  No one who thinks Akka diddled boys formed that suspicion only after finishing TTT.


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his disproportionate reaction to inraus death,

You're projecting into the event.  Akka loves Inrau because he sees in Inrau the innocence and cleanliness of heart that he knows he has lost: 

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Inrau . . . For Achamian, to think this name was to know peace for a fleeting instant. He had known so little peace in his life. And now he was forced to throw that peace onto the scales with terror. He must sacrifice Inrau in order to answer these questions.

Inrau had been a coltish adolescent when he’d first come to Achamian, a boy still blinking in the daybreak of manhood. Though there had been nothing extraordinary about his appearance or his intellect, Achamian had immediately recognized something different about him—a memory, perhaps, of the first student he’d loved, Nersei Proyas. But where Proyas had grown proud, overfed on the knowledge that he would someday be King, Inrau had remained . . . Inrau.

Teachers found many self-serving reasons to love their students. More than anything, they loved them simply because they listened. But Achamian had not loved Inrau as a student. Inrau, he’d realized, was good. Not good in the jaded way of the Mandate, who trafficked in the mire as did all other men. No. The good he saw in Inrau had nothing to do with kind acts or praiseworthy purposes; it was something innate. Inrau harboured no secrets, no shadowy need to conceal faults or to write himself large in the estimation of other men. He was open in the way of children and fools, and he possessed the same blessed naïveté, an innocence that smacked of wisdom rather than ignorance.

Innocence. If there was anything Achamian had forgotten, it was innocence.

Remember how much self-loathing he has while he is in Sumna and hears the pilgrims going on about how sorcerors are a cancer? He is more than a bit tempted to agree.

If that's not enough to convince you that this wasn't about Akka having mad lust for boy anus, consider that the self-characterization implied in the above reminiscences, i.e. that Akka is a teacher and sees himself as such above all else, is also exactly how Kellhus reads Akka's character and manipulates him into giving up the Gnosis.  There is no trace of Kellhus seeing anything erotic in Akka's relations with himself, Proyas, or anyone but Esmi.

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the disproportionate reaction of house nersei of breaking a centuries long contract with the mandate because of the "official" explanation of a teacher uttering a minor blasphemy  (especially when the teachers very existence is 1000 times more blasphemous),

That could be a pretext for anything, and is itself disproportionate with the alleged crime.  To reiterate, you don't buttfuck the king's son and then just walk away, especially when the King and all of his nobles, including the older brother of the boy you touched (Proyas is the king's second son, and only became heir apparent on his older brother Tirrumas' death in 4100) all have Chorae.  We saw clearly that sorcerors could be trapped and tortured Akka when he went to the Sareotic Library, there is no reason to believe he would be any less easy to bring to heel when every caste-noble in Conriya with a Chorae is after him for rape.

It is worth noting that Akka's successor (Charamemas) was a Shrial priest and famed scriptural commentator; that fits neatly with the official stated reason for Akka's dismissal: unorthodoxy.

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and because akkas rivals directly accuse him of it.

The most trustworthy of voices? There is no reason to believe that their accusations were chosen for truth, as opposed to usefulness to the accuser.  This can be seen even in the real world: want to ruin a teacher, accuse him of pedophilia.  Often merely sowing doubt is enough.  A man's enemies are not a reliable source for information about his character.

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And given the immensity of their accusation it is fascinating it is the only slight akka suffers in five books that he does not ruminate and brood on for multiple paragraphs, his only thought is basically shock that they knew the best way to wound him.

He's shocked that they know what he loves most: teaching.  Akka's enemies took the accusation of pederasty as a potent way of slurring his character; Akka took it to heart because his character as a teacher means something deep to him, and he is surprised that they knew this (if they did, to me it looks like they just used whatever slur seemed most dangerous given his situation and accidentally hit a nerve in terms of his real personality).

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It is all suspicious at the least. 

It is suspicious, and Bakker may intend for us to think it that way, even if he just wants to play a game and Akka isn't really a boy-toucher.  But there is nothing approaching a slam-dunk in the text that would prove this.  I think Bakker is teasing us.

74
General Earwa / Re: What would you like to ask Bakker?
« on: January 10, 2015, 08:20:22 pm »
I don't think Achamian touched either Inrau or Proyas (esp. not the later, the King's son is not some random boy you can buttfuck and then forget about).  Our perception that this was being insinuated was a residue from the rather shocking bluntness with which the Bardic Priest's rape of Ganrelka (?) was treated in the prologue and was no doubt aided by the rough similarity between the BP and Akka (in that neither is a physical combatant and both make their way in the world through lore of one or another sort).

75
General Earwa / Re: The Dûnyain
« on: January 06, 2015, 03:46:34 pm »
"Dûnyain" always struck me as coming from "Dune" with some extra syllables thrown in to make it sound non-Western.

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