The Second Apocalypse
Earwa => The Aspect-Emperor => The Great Ordeal => Topic started by: Davias on August 30, 2016, 08:39:27 pm
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I have just finished the book and I must say, I have mixed feelings about it.
Maybe I should wait until I have finished my reread of the book and clearly understand some things better, but I have to write about it now ;)
In my opinion, Bakkers writing style improved significantly since the first book, but sometimes it is a little bit too...much, I think.
Ok, english isn't my native language, but I haven't had such problems understanding most of the language in the last 5 books.
In The Great Ordeal however, I read an entire passage with Sorweel in Isterebinth the first time and understand absolutely nothing of it . I have to analyze and reread most of the sentences to understand the meaning of it. A second example is the nuke explosion in Dagliash. Only after the second time I had a rough idea about what happened.
And I think, the whole "soul" thing was a little bit too overdone. Everyone seems to see or read the soul of his or her opponent. Be it Kellhus, Mimara or some other protagonists, every person talks and thinks about souls all of a sudden. I know it is a very important theme in the books, but in the first trilogy it wasn't so....mmhhh... should I say "in your face" like in The Great Ordeal.
Overall I like the new book, the story is still fascinating, the characters interesting, but I miss some of the clearer writing about the inner thoughts of the protagonists in the first books.
Anyway, Bakker is my favourite writer at the moment, and none of the other fantasy books I have read in the last few years could match my enthusiasm about the series. I can hardly wait for the Unholy consult ;D
Should I reread the whole book a little bit slower to grasp the style a little bit better? I am a little bit too nostalgic about the first trilogy? Should I celebrate Bakker's unique ornate writing style rather than criticise it?
What are your opinion about my points? I gladly await some response ;)
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English isn't my mother tongue, but I've always had a fair degree of proficiency, but there were quite a few of words I had to look up because I couldn't make anything of them.
Mostly in the Ishterebinth part, now that you mention it. Some of the words used got more archaic the deeper Sorweel went, which is actually interesting, given he's visiting Cunuroi ancient history. The adaptive writing style depending on what character's POV was always there, but this gave it an additional dimension, what with the perception from the Amiolas's ancient soul.
And yes. Some passages have to be reread. The philosophical dimension in TGO is much more intense than in previous books. Understanding the conclusion of some scenes requires understanding of what came before. But in some scenes, knowing the conclusion can help better understand what actually happened. Which in turn makes it easier to grasp the implications. I found this especially to be the case for the Korringhus POV passages which I had to reread a few times during the first read.
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Bakker stepped up the archaic language this time. That is bound to be a big hindrance to non-native speakers. Kind of annoys me when authors do that. If "Sooth" wasn't in the vocabulary at the start why should it be now?
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Bakker stepped up the archaic language this time. That is bound to be a big hindrance to non-native speakers. Kind of annoys me when authors do that. If "Sooth" wasn't in the vocabulary at the start why should it be now?
I don't agree. If he was writing some public information or something then yes, he should use plain English. But he's writing fiction, so he can use whatever language he wants to. Indeed, part of the appeal of his work for me is the unusual language - it makes it seem more mysterious.
And surely you don't really believe that he shouldn't introduce new words just because they haven't already appeared?
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I do when they replace existing phrases and become the new norm. As in "in sooth".
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OK, I'll give you that one. I stick by the more general statement though - authors shouldn't necessarily use language that makes their work easier to understand. Their main aim should be to make it interesting.
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Not gonna lie - I had no idea what was going on with that boat in Ishterebinth. I assume it's just some massive chasm and that the boat travels to its edges and depths where the "lost cause" erratics reside to toss them pigs and it moves via sorcery or some kind of pulley system. Not really sure but would appreciate a clarification!
Kinda reminds me of the boat that entered a Warren/Warren that took over a coast in Deadhouse Gates, except I think you're supposed to not know what the hell was going on there.
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Not gonna lie - I had no idea what was going on with that boat in Ishterebinth. I assume it's just some massive chasm and that the boat travels to its edges and depths where the "lost cause" erratics reside to toss them pigs and it moves via sorcery or some kind of pulley system. Not really sure but would appreciate a clarification!
Kinda reminds me of the boat that entered a Warren/Warren that took over a coast in Deadhouse Gates, except I think you're supposed to not know what the hell was going on there.
Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
The Boat is on a pulley system, hence the clack, clack, clack. I'm sure there is sorcery involved, like with the lights on the boat. But, it seems the mechanism that raises and lowers the boat is mechanical for the most part.
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Not gonna lie - I had no idea what was going on with that boat in Ishterebinth. I assume it's just some massive chasm and that the boat travels to its edges and depths where the "lost cause" erratics reside to toss them pigs and it moves via sorcery or some kind of pulley system. Not really sure but would appreciate a clarification!
There's an incredibly deep pit that leads from the underworld mansion to the Holy Deep where the memory-less Cunuroi are.
It's a bit like the Well of Viri or the Great Medial Screw of Cil-Aujas, except that it appears to start deeper in the mansion.
The repetitive Clack was caused by chains, if my memory serves.
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Damn, I guess it wasn't that obscure at all
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Davias! Welcome back :)!
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Yeah, madness I love to post here again, after a longer time of absence :) The Great Ordael has drawn me back deep into Eärwa with the quickness of a dunyain sword cut...
Oh, that boat in isterebinth, I struggled with that passage too, Bolivar
For me the book is much better after I had read it a second time and after I grasped some of the deeper descriptions better.
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While reading the Ishterebinth chapters I tried to construct a map of the city. I found it gave a better idea of the scale you're looking at.
Also, I quickly adopted the idea that by going deeper into the city, you're delving not only into the into the memory of the soul within the Amiolas, an Era-old Cunnuroi (Epic), but also into the collective attempt to fight off the memory loss of the entire Cunuroi race (even more Epic). Given the big fuss that is given about Memory in general since TDTCB (ex. The Mandate Dreams), I find this quite a big deal.
Edit: Also the end is quite epic, with a Cunnuroi remembering .
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Yeah, madness I love to post here again, after a longer time of absence :) The Great Ordael has drawn me back deep into Eärwa with the quickness of a dunyain sword cut...
:)! Well, it's great to read you. Maybe Royce and Kellais will be joining us again soon. I don't know if they have to wait til Orbit's release but Sep 29th is only a few weeks away.