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Messages - Sausuna

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16
General Earwa / Re: The Sohonc and Mangaecca
« on: October 09, 2017, 05:45:16 pm »
All great points. The idea of the Mangaecca predating the Sohonc by some 400 years got me excited...but TFS footnote and the Bakker quote seem to through it off.

The fact that is was referred to as the "Learned School" by 668 makes in seem far more than a gathering of contemporaries.
What is even stranger is the language in TFS talking about the Sohonc being upset about the Mangaecca raising Nogaral two centuries prior. But if Titirga was alive 1055 - 1119, Noshainrau wasn't alive two centuries prior.

I have to assume there might be divide between what was considered the Nonman school of the Sohonc and later the human Sohonc. Which could fit with Gin’yursis founding the Sohonc before the Mangaecca and then Noshainrau being a founding Grandmaster and Titirga second Grandmaster. But the Mangaecca being referred to as older than the Sohonc.

Or this is just a big error.

17
General Earwa / Re: The Sohonc and Mangaecca
« on: October 09, 2017, 02:31:34 pm »
Noshainrau is the founding Grandmaster. Titirga is the second Grandmaster. And Outhrata is somehow eventually a Grandmaster, even though he died before Titirga was murdered?

Well, IIRC, TFS makes no reference to Titirga being Grandmaster at the time, so it's possible he had vacated the position before his death.
It refers to him as 'a master of the Sohonc'. And also uses the term Master in lieu of Grandmaster elsewhere for Shae. And in the glossary for The Consult again. "Though most Mandate scholars suspect Consult involvement in the death of the celebrated Sohonc Grandmaster Titirga some time around 1119," Technically possible, but it seems odd, given they could have just had Outhrata be later in the timeline, given his lack of actual involvement in anything.

18
General Earwa / Re: The Sohonc and Mangaecca
« on: October 09, 2017, 02:11:29 pm »
Per the entry on The Consult.

Quote
Though the Gnostic Schools of Sohonc and Mangaecca are referenced as Far Antique contemporaries, the Mangaecca is the older of the two schools, as well as the one possessing the deepest Nonman affiliations—affiliations which would prove instrumental to the School’s transformation into the Consult.
And as for the entry on the Mangaecca.
Quote
Mangaecca—The ancient rival to the School of Sohonc, and last of the four original Gnostic Schools. From its founding in 684 by Sos-Praniura (the greatest student of Gin’yursis), the School of Mangaecca had pursued a predatory ethos, regarding knowledge as the embodiment of power. Though this earned the School an ambiguous reputation, the Mangaecca managed to avoid running afoul of the High Gnostic Writ, the edict of Nincama-Telesser circumscribing sorcerous conduct.
So it was not formed as a rival. The Mangaecca came first under Sos-Praniura, a student of Gin’yursis in 684. And the Sohonc later (around 400 years later) under Noshainrau. But they were great rivals after that.



Another minor note, though, of an odd timeline error in the glossary.
Noshainrau the White (c. 1005—72)—The founding Grandmaster of the Sohonc.
Outhrata (c. 1060—c. 1115)—Famed Sohonc metaphysician (and eventual Grand-master) who became a central figure in the so-called Gnostic Renaissance.
Titirga (c. 1055—c. 1119)—The second Grandmaster of the Sohonc, childhood pupil of Noshainrau the White, and the famed Hero-Mage of Ûmerau, reputed to be the most powerful sorcerer, Man or Nonman, to have drawn breath.

Noshainrau is the founding Grandmaster. Titirga is the second Grandmaster. And Outhrata is somehow eventually a Grandmaster, even though he died before Titirga was murdered?

19
General Misc. / Re: The Mark Lawrence Forum Experiment
« on: October 09, 2017, 01:45:06 pm »
@Madness - I'd suggest against it, but it would probably generate interesting discussion. Like I said before, though. I think the hypothesis has a lot of variables to account for.

Please, freestyle with me. I'm not sure I can look at this situation thus far and isolate hypotheses or account for relevant variables.
Well, I assume the point of contention is 'does a fan forum help book sales, harm books sales, or have no effect?' So one would probably want to look at book sales for an author before, during, and maybe even after (less important, probably) having a fan site. And then compare this to sale trends for other authors.

But there are a lot of other reasons a book may or may not sell. I'm hardly a researcher or economist, but I imagine below might be a few things to account for.
- General economic trends. I would think entertainment spending would be lower during bad periods.
- Prominence of the author. If an author has prior success, I assume it increases future sales, which might need to be looked at when comparing to other authors and prior sales.
- Marketing and publicity. I assume different publishers have different marketing ability to some degree. As well as the authors own willingness to travel for tours or reach out to people on the internet.
- Book price. I'm not entirely sure how such a thing is determined, but the price of hardback and paperback varies both between them and between individual books. Could influence sales a tad. One might be able to add something like cover art in here too, but that's getting a bit more into why people buy specific books.
- Nearby releases. If George R.R. Martin is releasing a book, it could affect sales of one author, given prominence of other interests in the genre.
- Accessibility of the fan site. Since I think Lawrence mentioned it, is it a subreddit, is the site linked often? Does it come up high on Google results? If people see the site as often as they might see other mentions, it'd probably have diminishing returns.

Anyway, I think these various things could affect sales and/or analyzing the relevant data trends to isolate effects.

20
Though, as a skin-spy, they might have access to holograms, no?

If the holograms could be projected that far, wouldn't that invalidate most of the need for skin-spies?
I meant more like having a device on them. Sort of how like they made one with a soul, one Inchoiri who could manage magic, salvaged one nuke. Perhaps they managed one hologram projector for a special Kellhus skin-spy.

Though, honestly, I can't recall when this scene happened. Unless I'm missing something

21
General Misc. / Re: The Mark Lawrence Forum Experiment
« on: October 06, 2017, 04:25:04 pm »
I would give his books a solid B. The setting, action, and characters are terribly enjoyable. That said, for some reason it always gave me a sort of 'young adult adventure' feel, not sure why. And the main character is kind of a Mary Sue (as much as I loath the term).

I think I have enough A material I'd like to get to before I really dive too deep into the B material.  Unless, like I said, there is some compelling extenuating reason to.  Good isn't really all that attractive when great is just as available.
Oh, sure. I just meant to give my opinion more-so than convince you to read it. Thoughts of the author aside.

@Madness - I'd suggest against it, but it would probably generate interesting discussion. Like I said before, though. I think the hypothesis has a lot of variables to account for.

22
...

It's the part where Sorweel tries to kill him for the last time.

I don't see why Kellhus gaining some knowledge of the Psûhke would be far-fetched though.

Also, I feel there is a Bakker quote somewhere in which he says that the "halos" are not sorcerous.  Also, doesn't Serwë see the Halos on the skin-spy impersonating Kellhus?  Pretty clear indication that they are user-generated, we thought back when...

As per Wilshire...

Serwe does see the haloes on the Skin-Spy impersonating Kellhus.
Though, as a skin-spy, they might have access to holograms, no?

23
The Unholy Consult / Re: The Cover
« on: October 06, 2017, 04:16:34 pm »
Yeah, I wasn't a big fan of the direction the covers took in TAE. I generally liked the style of the paperbacks from TPON. Really had that holy war, crusades look for some reason.

24
General Earwa / Re: Mistakes and things that piss off in the series
« on: October 06, 2017, 04:14:20 pm »
Achamian is mentioned as being the only known Wizard, a sorcerer without a School. What about Pafaras the captain of the Stone Hags? Apparently he was scourged from the Mysunsai and run off into the wilderness. And he was specifically outlawed by the Empire so it's not like his continued existence was unknown. Wouldn't he fit the criteria?
Well, isn't a lot of what's said about Pafaras presented as rumor? Further, I'm not sure it is clear his school had repudiated him. Not that I recall all the details off-hand. Perhaps he was an awkward member they told to hang in the wild.

But you might be right.

25
The Unholy Consult / Re: Defining "Cause"
« on: October 06, 2017, 12:58:26 pm »
Isn't Kellhus saying there that the Logos is just another agent of the "darkness that comes before?"

I figure that to "master cause via cause" instead of via the Logos means to eschew some intellectual pursuit, rather take the Consult's line of reshaping the world to serve your own ends.
Indeed, that's how I took it as well. The idea that the Logos isn't necessarily special, but was an effective tool of control. And ultimately one must reshape the world to reach the Absolute, that true grasp of the Logos isn't actual self-movement.

I think, anyway. The entire section still confuses me.

26
General Earwa / Re: (spoilers all) General Questions
« on: October 05, 2017, 08:25:57 pm »
Fairly sure those fancy Cinderswords by Emilidis protect one from Wracu fire?

Nau-Cayuti was just Matthew Mcconaughey in Reign of Fire (also clearly one of the best movies ever made).
They do. But we also saw how that turned out for whats-his-name outside the gate...

Also, no, that is heresy! I had such hopes for that movie...

27
General Earwa / Re: (spoilers all) General Questions
« on: October 05, 2017, 04:31:29 pm »
It seems likely that we'll see all the lost Wracu return?

Only two are unaccounted for: as per my updated list here but one of those is dead in the Black Halls.

(I just realized that thread is in the WLW section.  Advice on where to split it maybe?)

Well, two unaccounted of those we have reference to/names for ;).

Uh... maybe just make a new thread in TNG or GE (since it's not content specific to TUC, necessarily).

EDIT: You know, going forward it seems almost certain that we should see some mundane person kill a Dragon a la Nau-Cayuti?
After the scene where Serwa fights the one, the idea that Nau-Cayuti killed a dragon seems so strange to me. She was a super-warrior on drugs in the dark with a fire sword to survive the ordeal. And Wutteat was doing pretty well against amazing mages.

28
General Misc. / Re: The Mark Lawrence Forum Experiment
« on: October 05, 2017, 01:58:19 pm »
Lol. I'm not letting abrasive author experience color my perspective of a book before I read it - only after ;) . Still on my list.

I was sort of joking, but not really.  I mean, if I am going to read something, there needs to be a compelling reason to do so.  The default is to not waste my time, until proven I will not be wasting my time.  I am old and I don't have much time, so I only want the best of the best, really.

So, in the sense, this guy's demeanor has done nothing to suggest I should read any of his books.  And I haven't seen anything else to suggest I should either.
I would give his books a solid B. The setting, action, and characters are terribly enjoyable. That said, for some reason it always gave me a sort of 'young adult adventure' feel, not sure why. And the main character is kind of a Mary Sue (as much as I loath the term).

29
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Ajokli's Motivations
« on: October 05, 2017, 12:15:04 pm »
I haven't done a ton of research and I'm not all that overwhelmingly knowledgeable about this, but Ajokli as the "trickster god" and his desire to stalk Eärwa itself seem somewhat in line with "real" trickster gods from our own human history.  From Br'er Rabbit, to Anansi, to incarnations of coyotes and ravens, they are usually out in the world itself, not disembodied gods.  Yatwer never really seeks a presence in Eärwa, but Ajokli does.  Whether this is to outmaneuver the other gods, or just to mess with mortals or both is not clear though.
I think the speech he gives, along with the glossary entry, give strong indication that he just wants more souls to eat. The only god whose hunger is too great to be contained to the Outside.

30
General Earwa / Re: (spoilers all) General Questions
« on: October 04, 2017, 12:58:34 pm »
Bashrag have souls as well, right?

I very much doubt that, as they are (presumably) based off the same plans that created Sranc, just in triplicate.
I'll have to search back, I'm not sure why I had that impression, as though it was discussed in TJE when we see the first Bashrag. But looked at TGO, it does mention they were made around a 'soulless pit', so maybe that was the language I was recalling.

And says they wait with the patience of the soulless. Maybe I was thinking of Wracu?

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