Who (or what) created Eärwa?

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« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2013, 05:55:17 pm »
Quote from: Curethan
I tend to think demonic Ciphrang are viramsata of damnation.  That is, they are damnation itself, given agency.
Likewise the hundred gods are expressions of 'pure' meaning, pure in this sense that they emenate from the unconcious.

The Damned cannot see the source of their damnation because it lies within - to see is to understand and to become, as Mimara demonstrates.  An eye within the heart demostrates the irony, yeh?

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« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2013, 05:55:25 pm »
Quote from: Wilshire
How about demonic/angelic are misleading terms. A mundane way to explain a meta-complex subject.

Could be that demonic and angelic is just a matter of real estate. Angels have more land, more of the outside, more sway, they are the hundred. The demons, like Lucifer in paradise lost, are those cast out, those who want power over the gods, those who the gods look down on. Those are the ones weak enough to be forced into the mundane world.

Quote from: Curethan
  An eye within the heart demostrates the irony, yeh?

Eyes that cannot see are often the ones that prove to have the most insight in Earwa.

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« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2013, 07:43:45 pm »
Probably been discussed before, but I've thought this was rather suspiciously odd several times. Creation stories are perhaps one of the most universal structures of myth in existence, for obvious reasons. Why is it never mentioned in the series (unless it is and I've never noticed it)? Is there no Kiunnat creation myth? No Fanim one? Origins, in general, are pretty damn obscure in this series (which makes sense since a huge aspect of the suspense and drive to keep reading relies and thrives on the mysteries of the universe being depicted), but it is curious to me that none of these ultra-pious characters would think about it, considering how heavily such concepts play into religious thought in the real world. The earliest we have, within the Kiunnat cannon, is the Breaking of the Gates, no?

I mean presumably we wouldn't be told the actual origins of things because they're spoilery as all hell, but even so it seems strange that RSB wouldn't include in-universe legends about how people think the world began?

Wilshire

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« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2013, 08:17:35 pm »
I think this is may be the only mention of it on the forum:
Quote from: Triskele
Quote from: Madness
It is interesting that we've not encountered any creation myths...

That is interesting...

I mean, I assume that the Fanim believe The God created the world and that the Inrithi believe something similar, but we've never really been told that have we?

And one would think that the Nonmen would have a creation myth too...
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« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2013, 09:24:45 pm »
Lol, what thread is that from, Wilshire, I was thinking Duskweaver made a comment after that too?

I mean presumably we wouldn't be told the actual origins of things because they're spoilery as all hell, but even so it seems strange that RSB wouldn't include in-universe legends about how people think the world began?

So strange as to be purposeful, methinks.
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« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2013, 11:14:47 pm »
Lol, what thread is that from, Wilshire, I was thinking Duskweaver made a comment after that too?

I mean presumably we wouldn't be told the actual origins of things because they're spoilery as all hell, but even so it seems strange that RSB wouldn't include in-universe legends about how people think the world began?

There's some talk about the God dreaming up creation, but yeah beyond that we don't even know how evolution produced the Nonmen and then humans. Seems a bit odd that natural selection can create something like the Nonmen in the same environment that seems to produce a near facsimile of Earth's ecosystems.

So strange as to be purposeful, methinks.

Cüréthañ

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« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2013, 12:09:15 am »
A question I've posed a couple times at least, on older forums if not this.
There may be creation myths on the tusk, but it seems more like men are refugees who left their memories of home behind.
Which suggests those memories are very bad ones.
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« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2013, 12:42:52 am »
I feel it has been discussed before on Westeros as well, though I can't remember any specifics.

As for the concept of evolution, I actually do believe that the life in the Bakkerverse evolved, or at the very least, all the life on planets other than Earwa evolved. I say this because I think it fits into the idea of the Inchoroi being a race "born for damnation". Plus I'm pretty sure there are quotes from Bakker stating that lifeforms reaching a certain level of intelligence eventually develop a soul, which implies the movement from a lower to higher order, or a progression, rather than just snapping into existence.

As for how the Nonmen could exist in an evolutionary system -- they were rather segregated from the better part of Earwa for most of their history, and they do display features that could theoretically be consistent with humans that moved underground, and thus adapted to that lifestyle (pale skin, hairless, dark eyes, etc.).

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« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2013, 12:58:26 am »
Tricky topic.  At what point do animals evolve souls?  Why do nonmen live so much longer?  They produce fertile offspring with humans but only in very rare circumstances that seem to be important in a continued historical sense.  The question of immanence is huge here; and biologically the idea of evolution in Earwa raises many, many more questions.
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« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2013, 04:09:48 pm »
There's some talk about the God dreaming up creation, but yeah beyond that we don't even know how evolution produced the Nonmen and then humans.

That's never corroborated in the text, is it, sci? I pretty sure Bakker mentioned the anarcane ground being where God dreams most lucidly only on ZTS.

A question I've posed a couple times at least, on older forums if not this.
There may be creation myths on the tusk, but it seems more like men are refugees who left their memories of home behind.
Which suggests those memories are very bad ones.


I didn't look on Westeros but couldn't really find anything on ZTS.

Tricky topic.  At what point do animals evolve souls?  Why do nonmen live so much longer?  They produce fertile offspring with humans but only in very rare circumstances that seem to be important in a continued historical sense.  The question of immanence is huge here; and biologically the idea of evolution in Earwa raises many, many more questions.

Doesn't the possibility of having viable offspring suggest a common ancestor?
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« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2013, 07:26:54 pm »
lol this is the thread its from:

http://second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=819.msg5298#msg5298
"Who (or what) created Eärwa?"
:P
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« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2013, 07:42:32 pm »
Lol, FB. Just can't get the answers you want, eh?

I moved that thread and combined the two in Misc. Chatter (here). So interested participants might want to go back and explore the earlier portion of this combined thread.
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« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2013, 10:00:58 am »
Doesn't the possibility of having viable offspring suggest a common ancestor?

Viable offspring in a self organised system like our own, yes. 

Needing a million attempts to do so and only succeeding when it would benefit/amuse an external agency, probably not.

The Inchies made an one-in-a-million ensouled skin spy in a shorter time frame than the average occurence of cunuroi/halaroi halfbreeds.

*edited for coherence*
« Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 01:16:55 pm by Curethan »
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« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2013, 12:53:03 pm »
The Inchies made an one-in-a-million ensouled skin spy in a shorter time frame than the average occurence of cunuroi/halaroi halfbreeds.

Lol...
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« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2013, 04:31:03 pm »
Hah, totally forgot about this thread. Figures that the same questions are still lingering in my head.