Miscellaneous Chatter > Philosophy & Science
Bakker's Blind Brain Theory
Wilshire:
Well, I'm at the point as well, which is why I am asking ;).
I agree that the SA also plays a role, the whole thing where everything becomes meaningless when everything is known....
Royce:
I have not read that much about this either, so please arrest me if I appear ignorant.
This theory is what drives the novel neuropath, right?. "The argument" proposed by Neil.
This notion that "self" is illusory and that perception/consciousness can be altered through neurological experiment is hardly breaking news?
Haven`t people all over the world figured that out through the use of psychedelics and deep meditation/yoga? Another example is the experience called "satori" in zen buddhism.
Can someone explain what the difference is? Is the BBT something else entirely? If all sensory experience is just "neurons firing", isn`t that observation also illusory? If everything derived from the "self" is illusory, isn`t the BBT also just as illusory as santa claus?
Again, if the "self" is illusory, then everything the "self" says/does is also illusory. At this point everything is a dream. If all linguistic concepts are illusory in nature, then the "darkness that comes before" is unfathomable. There is no way to know what that is. If we try to describe it, we immediately enter the dreamstate of illusions.
H:
The truth is, I don't know. My limited cognitive skills start to break down at the level this conversation tends to enter, so it becomes really hard for me to make solid points on it.
Here is another post where he outlines his theory. Maybe that will help to clear things up, I'm not sure.
Wilshire:
Royce, I don't think that logic really connects. Either we live in a world that exists, or it doesnt, and if you choose to think it doesn't, there's really nothing else worth talking about, or even anything that you can talk about with someone who thinks otherwise.
However, if you believe that you exist, you can continue having a conversation. If you and/or the world exists, then things are happening in it, pretty much by definition. While you might argue that the way you perceive these things is 'illusory' that doesn't mean they aren't happening.
Anyway, i have no answers for your questions, only partly because i feel like we are on two total different wavelengths.
Regarding Neuropath, yes I believe you are correct.
As for altering perception, yes, old news.
But "This notion that "self" is illusory " I cannot make sense of in any real way. If you exist, you must be a self somewhere in there, right? As an atom is to a molecule, the large whole does exist in a definable fashion regardless of whether or not you can break it into smaller parts. I don't know how to discuss consciousness, but certainly there is a difference between living things and non-living things, and that difference is largely some ability to recognize 'self', isn't it?
H:
--- Quote from: Wilshire on July 28, 2015, 02:18:28 pm ---But "This notion that "self" is illusory " I cannot make sense of in any real way. If you exist, you must be a self somewhere in there, right? As an atom is to a molecule, the large whole does exist in a definable fashion regardless of whether or not you can break it into smaller parts. I don't know how to discuss consciousness, but certainly there is a difference between living things and non-living things, and that difference is largely some ability to recognize 'self', isn't it?
--- End quote ---
Well, I think that really depends highly on what you define "The Self" as though. Certainly consciousness exists, because we experience it. The question is though, is it (really) what we feel it is?
I can tend to agree with the wide ascertain that what we experience as "The Self" (as a director, as the operator) is indeed not what it actually is. Our brain does what it wants when it wants, whether we are conscious of it or not. In fact, research has kind of shown that our brain (without thought, consciousness, The Self) actually runs the show, not the reverse. Decisions are made, then consciousness is informed, with the feeling of "I made this choice" (I being The Self, here).
I kind of started rambling there, but does that help?
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version