Miscellaneous Chatter > RPG Discussion
DMing brainstorm, artifacts and stuff
dragharrow:
Ok cool. I'll start with some general plot and setting and later I'll throw out some ideas for artifacts that we can kick around.
My game is pretty tropey so it's all stuff you've seen before. It takes place at the edge of a Rome like empire. The players are wardens, basically marshal style lawmen. A small town on the wild west style frontier was taken over by a group of bandits who killed the previous sheriff and moved in to occupy the town. They are sent to kill the bandits and set up camp in town as the new law. Because it's the frontier they become the major representatives of the crown in the area.
After they killed the witch they've stirred up some political intrigue. They put together a council of prominent citizens to help rule. Ostensibly they did this in order to restore the rule of law but really I think they just wanted to have a way to keep track of the major players. After that they played around with the government of the town and then later went on a short delve into the nearby undercity. I don't know exactly where the plot will go from here.
I'll talk about mythology and history in a bit
dragharrow:
For the mythology I steal from all over the place. The main good deity in my setting is Lucifer. I know that sounds like I'm trying to be super edgy but whatever. So, Lucifer won the battle with God and now he and a group of archangels make up the pantheon. God is locked in hell instead of Lucifer. Magic comes from him. Mages imitate the voice of God to control the Word which is the substrate of creation.
At some point in distant history a dark Christ was born on earth and tried to free the Father. He went to war with the nonmen and destroyed their cities one by one. Eventually, their greatest sorcerers met with each other and the most powerful consumed the others. He faced the Christ in a final climatic battle and won but the nonmen were forever broken.
That's basically what I have right now. I'll try and come up with some ideas for artifacts next but lemme know what you think and if you have any cool ideas.
H:
So, the Nonmen's agenda include keeping God locked up, presumably because that is the font of their remaining power? While God is not in Heaven (or wherever else) he is not in charge of creation, therefor his voice is muted, so everyone else's can be heard (i.e. exact changes)?
Is the idea about the Christ that he is Lucifer's son, who rebelled in turn, or was he some effort on the part of God to escape? I think there are some interesting things to be done with either. To keep it in a real-world parallel still, there is the offer of a second coming, of course, which seems to only make sense if he was God's son, rather than Lucifer's. Presumably, Lucifer would have learned his lesson about children, after the first.
My biggest question is probably, what are the ramifications of God's absence (and Lucifer's reign)? Is it just a transference, like all things attributed to God simply now are applied to Lucifer? How has the Church changed, what are the differences of it under Lucifer and God? Where God was perhaps only, or mostly, intercessional, Lucifer is more "hands-on," but rewards those most like himself? Therefor the Chruch is largely oppressive, rewarding those who seem dominance and lack humility and hubris? Lucifer is not omniscient, but fancies himself so. His plans have no been working out as he really wished. The more he tinkers, the more goes wrong, perhaps? Where Angels were once the dispensers of God's mercy and grace (mostly), now they are agents of Lucifer's will, attempting to force his orders, since plans are falling apart?
I guess this brings me into my next part, what is the story of Lucifer? Are we on the idea that he was an Angel, cast out of Heaven for wishing to supplant God? So, he established an Underword empire, so called Hell, and from there perhaps crafted Nonmen? In other words, Nonmen are part Angel? OK, that aside, Lucifer rebels and through means unknown, managed to switch places with God and partition Hell off from the world to keep God locked away?
Now, perhaps God finds a way to squeak out some of his will, or maybe some other Angel decides to help God, and so Christ is born. He realizes what has happened, perhaps by the guidance of that Angel, and so works to free God. Naturally, the Nonmen selfishly want God to stay locked up, since their voices are loud without His to drown them out, so they fight Christ. They win, but at huge costs. Now there is fear, because there is a prophecy of a Second Coming, and the Nonmen don't know if they have the strength to fight this again.
OK, I think I am rambling a bit now. On the artifacts, there are some things that can be sort of real-world parallels to actual Christian artifacts. Like the Shroud of Turin, pieces of the True Cross, or the Lance of Longinus. Also, artifacts from the war between God and Lucifer. Objects inflected with God's will and those with Lucifer's.
dragharrow:
Awesome stuff all around H. Thanks so much for helping me brainstorm this.
--- Quote from: H on September 25, 2015, 12:49:59 pm ---My biggest question is probably, what are the ramifications of God's absence (and Lucifer's reign)? Is it just a transference, like all things attributed to God simply now are applied to Lucifer? How has the Church changed, what are the differences of it under Lucifer and God? Where God was perhaps only, or mostly, intercessional, Lucifer is more "hands-on," but rewards those most like himself? Therefor the Chruch is largely oppressive, rewarding those who seek dominance and lack humility and hubris?
--- End quote ---
I tend to think of Lucifer as an innocent. Maybe a kind of mirror for Christ. For me, Lucifer has to be the highest of God’s creation, the grandest. The first angel, he is noble, strong, smart and kind. His love for God is unimaginable. Unfortunately, he is, like all angels, incapable of change, and is forced to rebel. That’s just my thoughts on the character and those fudge the cannon a lot but that's where I’m coming from.
In the world of my story he is a definitely a force of good. For the sake of a simple and fun mythology, the God figure is a clear bad guy. Lucifer’s motivations in real mythology are complicated, but here, he is simply overthrowing an evil overlord. So to answer your question, he is an unambiguously good deity, and many of the traits of the Christian God are simply transferred over to him. He does reward those more like himself, but the differences between him and the Christian God aren’t that dark. He values freedom and strength more highly than mercy. He values chivalry. He values truth. The angels were God’s soldiers and he was first among them. He is lightbringer, a knight in shining armor. The problems with his rule are probably mostly born of the fact that by his nature he is a hero and not a king.
So that’s what I have as a starting point. I’m open to changing stuff though. Your feedback is really good and none of this is set in stone yet. I need notes on this stuff so if you think something doesn’t work or could be more interesting by all means let me know.
--- Quote ---Lucifer is not omniscient, but fancies himself so. His plans have no been working out as he really wished. The more he tinkers, the more goes wrong, perhaps?
--- End quote ---
This I really like and am going to use. Lucifer is a good guy but he is proud, and this is a really interesting way for that to manifest. Totally the kind of flaw a jock like Lucifer would have.
--- Quote ---I guess this brings me into my next part, what is the story of Lucifer? Are we on the idea that he was an Angel, cast out of Heaven for wishing to supplant God? So, he established an Underword empire, so called Hell, and from there perhaps crafted Nonmen? In other words, Nonmen are part Angel?
--- End quote ---
Lucifer succeeded in his rebellion and locked God in Hades. He now sits in the throne of heaven and rules as God did. I think the forerunners were God’s chosen people, and that humans are Lucifer’s. When God created them they were mud people. Animals without consciousness. Lucifer gave them the apple and elevated them.
--- Quote ---OK, that aside, Lucifer rebels and through means unknown, managed to switch places with God and partition Hell off from the world to keep God locked away?
Now, perhaps God finds a way to squeak out some of his will, or maybe some other Angel decides to help God, and so Christ is born. He realizes what has happened, perhaps by the guidance of that Angel, and so works to free God.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, God is locked in hell now. I wasn’t sure whether Christ should be the son of God or Lucifer but I’ve been leaning towards God. The birth of the Son is part of God’s nature, and so it offered a chance for God to retake the heavens and the earth.
I don't know if that answers all your questions so let me know if I missed something important or there's an area of the lore you'd want to explore cuz I'd be down. Really good thoughts on artifacts, I'll think about those. I still want more Bakker style artifacts. Bits of philosophy in material form.
Thanks again H. Let me know if you have any other thoughts
H:
--- Quote from: dragharrow on September 30, 2015, 06:41:50 am ---Awesome stuff all around H. Thanks so much for helping me brainstorm this.
--- End quote ---
Not a problem, it's no sweat, easy to spin yarn from my armchair here. That has always been my 'trouble' with storytelling, I can spin, but I can never weave yarn, if you follow what I mean.
--- Quote from: dragharrow on September 30, 2015, 06:41:50 am ---
--- Quote from: H on September 25, 2015, 12:49:59 pm ---My biggest question is probably, what are the ramifications of God's absence (and Lucifer's reign)? Is it just a transference, like all things attributed to God simply now are applied to Lucifer? How has the Church changed, what are the differences of it under Lucifer and God? Where God was perhaps only, or mostly, intercessional, Lucifer is more "hands-on," but rewards those most like himself? Therefor the Chruch is largely oppressive, rewarding those who seek dominance and lack humility and hubris?
--- End quote ---
I tend to think of Lucifer as an innocent. Maybe a kind of mirror for Christ. For me, Lucifer has to be the highest of God’s creation, the grandest. The first angel, he is noble, strong, smart and kind. His love for God is unimaginable. Unfortunately, he is, like all angels, incapable of change, and is forced to rebel. That’s just my thoughts on the character and those fudge the cannon a lot but that's where I’m coming from.
In the world of my story he is a definitely a force of good. For the sake of a simple and fun mythology, the God figure is a clear bad guy. Lucifer’s motivations in real mythology are complicated, but here, he is simply overthrowing an evil overlord. So to answer your question, he is an unambiguously good deity, and many of the traits of the Christian God are simply transferred over to him. He does reward those more like himself, but the differences between him and the Christian God aren’t that dark. He values freedom and strength more highly than mercy. He values chivalry. He values truth. The angels were God’s soldiers and he was first among them. He is lightbringer, a knight in shining armor. The problems with his rule are probably mostly born of the fact that by his nature he is a hero and not a king.
--- End quote ---
OK, that makes sense. God is a despot. Lucifer is not, so there is definitely room to play with the concept of 'rule-gone-awry.' I need to think more on grander implications. I think a central theme here is freedom and it's costs. At what cost does Lucifer's allowance of freedom come? At what cost does his love come?
--- Quote from: dragharrow on September 30, 2015, 06:41:50 am ---
--- Quote ---I guess this brings me into my next part, what is the story of Lucifer? Are we on the idea that he was an Angel, cast out of Heaven for wishing to supplant God? So, he established an Underword empire, so called Hell, and from there perhaps crafted Nonmen? In other words, Nonmen are part Angel?
--- End quote ---
Lucifer succeeded in his rebellion and locked God in Hades. He now sits in the throne of heaven and rules as God did. I think the forerunners were God’s chosen people, and that humans are Lucifer’s. When God created them they were mud people. Animals without consciousness. Lucifer gave them the apple and elevated them.
--- End quote ---
Indeed, that is good. One thing that begs though, is if the Nonmen were God's chosen people, why did they choose to not back Christ upon realizing he would bring back God? Is it because they realized that God was a despot and so they wanted to keep the power they gained in his absence? It's deep, because when we, in the real world, say "so-and-so is God's chosen" what we really mean, "so-and-so has chosen God" but in your world, it literally means that God has chosen them. Loosed from the shackles of God's indomitable will though, they chose freedom rather than a return, even a return that brokered 'elevated status.' That's kind of fascinating, how they gave up so much in the name of freedom. Raises interesting questions about the worth of freedom at such a high cost.
--- Quote from: dragharrow on September 30, 2015, 06:41:50 am ---
--- Quote ---OK, that aside, Lucifer rebels and through means unknown, managed to switch places with God and partition Hell off from the world to keep God locked away?
Now, perhaps God finds a way to squeak out some of his will, or maybe some other Angel decides to help God, and so Christ is born. He realizes what has happened, perhaps by the guidance of that Angel, and so works to free God.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, God is locked in hell now. I wasn’t sure whether Christ should be the son of God or Lucifer but I’ve been leaning towards God. The birth of the Son is part of God’s nature, and so it offered a chance for God to retake the heavens and the earth.
--- End quote ---
I admit, I am partial to the idea of God having a confederate Angel 'on his side.' My first thought goes to Michael, since it would have been him who had lead God's fight with Lucifer in those early days. Now, he slowly attempts to covertly work to bring back God, by the resurrection of Christ, but his work is slow because he cannot be seen to be openly defying Lucifer.
The player characters can be pawns of Michael, perhaps he appears to them, presents something as a Holy quest, but really unwittingly aiding in the Resurrection, to perhaps find the tomb of Christ (or something similar) or sundering it, or perhaps something else. No doubt, the Nonmen would not be pleased about this, so there is a potential conflict there.
--- Quote from: dragharrow on September 30, 2015, 06:41:50 am ---I don't know if that answers all your questions so let me know if I missed something important or there's an area of the lore you'd want to explore cuz I'd be down. Really good thoughts on artifacts, I'll think about those. I still want more Bakker style artifacts. Bits of philosophy in material form.
--- End quote ---
I admit that my philosophical knowledge is rather poor. I'll need to think more about bits that can translate to artifice.
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