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The Consult's Plans [TUC Spoilers}

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The P:
In WP chapter 21, the synthese is flying over the sack of Caraskand.  "And though Golgotterath had long scoffed at the Mandate and their prattle regarding the Celmomian Prophesy, how could they afford to take chances?  They were so near! So close! Soon the Children would gather, and they would rain ruin upon this despicable world! The End of Ends was coming..."

This does not sound like a plan to resurrect the No-God, knowing how the No-God is eventually resurrected.  And considering that they used an Anasurimbor the first time, shouldn't the Consult be pretty clear on what Kellhus showing up means?

Reading it this time around, this part almost sounds like the Inchoroi gave up on the No-God to seal the world plan, and have called on Inchoroi from the depths of space to come and blast the world away.

Wilshire:

--- Quote ---"And though Golgotterath had long scoffed at the Mandate and their prattle regarding the Celmomian Prophesy, how could they afford to take chances?  They were so near! So close! Soon the Children would gather, and they would rain ruin upon this despicable world! The End of Ends was coming..."
--- End quote ---
WP chapter 21, the synthese is flying over the sack of Caraskand. 


--- Quote from: The P on January 30, 2020, 03:33:54 pm ---This does not sound like a plan to resurrect the No-God, knowing how the No-God is eventually resurrected.
...
Reading it this time around, this part almost sounds like the Inchoroi gave up on the No-God to seal the world plan, and have called on Inchoroi from the depths of space to come and blast the world away.

--- End quote ---
"The Children" is a really strange turn of phrase. I'm not sure we see that again from a Consult POV, and unfortunately it could mean a great many things. It could be self referential, as the Inchoroi are the children of the progenitors, or it could be the weapons races which they may actually refer to as 'their children' from time to time.

I'm leaning toward the latter... But it still is strange. It does make it sound like they planning an attack of some kind without the No God, given the phrasing.

Also note that at this time the Ishual should still be undiscovered. I think the raid on Ishual and the subsequen capture of the Dunyain had to be sometime after WP (given the WP epilogue) but probably before TJE.


--- Quote from: The P on January 30, 2020, 03:33:54 pm ---And considering that they used an Anasurimbor the first time, shouldn't the Consult be pretty clear on what Kellhus showing up means?

--- End quote ---
The Inchoroi don't actually know why the No-God woke up. So actually they don't necessarily care about the Anasurimbor. As a reminder, the prophesy itself only says that "an anasurimbor will return at the end of the world" not that the Anasurimbor themselves do anything in particular. They just show up.

As a partial aside, I think the flippancy this regards the Celmomian Prophesy is interesting. Later on in TJE or WLW there is another line from a synthese "we must uphold all prophesies, even those that are false", which seems to revere whatever unnamed prophesy that refers to. Could be the tonal change is a sly indication that the Dunyain have taken over the Consult and have changed certain priorities.

And lastly, welcome to the forum.

H:
This is an interesting notion.  First, I think we can pretty easily say that "we don't know for sure" what the Consult plan was pre-Kellhus.

As for circumstantial "evidence," I think first we ahve a notion that "Children" might be the skin-spies.  From TTT, chapter 9:

--- Quote ---They called themselves the Last Children of the Inchoroi, though they were loath to speak of their “Old Fathers.” They claimed to be Keepers of the Inverse Fire, though the merest question regarding either their “keeping” or their “fire” pitched them into confusion. They never complained, save to say they hungered for unspeakable congress, or to insist they were falling—always falling. They declared he could trust them, because their Old Father had made them his slaves. They were, they said, dogs that would sooner starve than snap meat from a stranger’s hand.
--- End quote ---

This might explain just why so many of them are in the Ark (and the Golden Room) in TUC.

But that doesn't really answer our question though.  It could be that, since they had failed and failed again with actually rebooting the No-God, they were actively trying a "new" plan.

TTT, Chapter 11:

--- Quote ---He called to them in the sacred pitch only they and rats could hear. They came leaping through dark and abandoned halls, faithful, faithless things. They grovelled before him, their groins slick from their victims. His eyes flared and they clutched themselves in anguish and ecstasy. His children. His flowers.
For decades, the Consult had assumed that the alien metaphysics of the Cishaurim had been responsible for uncovering their children in Shimeh. This had made the prospect of the Empire’s fall to the Fanim intolerable. Half the Three Seas immune to their poison? The Holy War had seemed a rare opportunity.
But the plate had changed all too quickly. To realize that the Cishaurim were but a mask for a far more ancient foe. To come so very close, only to discover their sublime deceptions subverted by something deeper. Something new.
--- End quote ---

So I think Aurang just calls all the Tekne races his children.  So I'd likely consider the idea that they had summoned any additional Inchoroi as improbable.

My guess would be that they wanted the Holy War to reduce the fighting ability of the Three Seas.  Then, they could mobilize the force which eventually gets used against Ishual, to attack the Three Seas.  I don't think "rain ruin" is meant literally.  But, those Nonmen sorcerers do tend to do that literally too.

What seems to happen though is that the notion of Dûnyain though throws them off.  Essentially, Kellhus (and Moe) have done in thirty years why the Consult has tried to do from the shadows for milenia.  So, of course, they see them as an existential threat.  And, likely, rightly so.

Aurang goes on though:

--- Quote ---Their devious methods and disconcerting abilities aside, these Dûnyain were Anasûrimbor. Even without the Mandate prophecies, enmity was a fact of their accursed blood.
--- End quote ---

So, even if there was no prophecy, they'd still want them dead on the merit of their name.  But, considering what they were able to do and how, now they want to know more.  Honestly, it's rather sensible, I think.

Further thought is likely needed though, but interesting point to be brought up, great first post.

profgrape:
It's never really been clear to me whether NC as the Subject was a happy accident or a deliberate choice. Regardless of which, however, that the Consult were pretty much SOL after all the Anasurimbor were (presumably) wiped out during TFA.

I'd love to know what in the heck they were doing for the ~2000 years between Mengedda and the discovery of the Dunyain and a living Anasurimbor. Aside from sowing discord throughout TSS, of course.

It's a shame that we never got to hear from Shae in the present timeline...

TaoHorror:

--- Quote from: profgrape on January 30, 2020, 05:27:01 pm ---It's a shame that we never got to hear from Shae in the present timeline...
--- End quote ---

Sorcery appears to be the top of the stack of power in Earwa. It almost wiped out all of the Inchoroi and the Dunyain, few stragglers behind. More powerful than technology and intellect. So I'm not sure I'm all in that the Duyain took over The Consult. Me thinks Shae has a role yet to play and could be possessing/controlling the few Duyain prisoners. When I was reading it, at first I thought the Dunsult were skinspies and not really Dunyain proper. But reading on I accepted they were actually Dunyain, but still don't trust anything they said to Kellhus. Using truth as a weapon is what they do and we've seen them talk their way out of imprisonment before, but if Shae can trick/kill Titirga, maybe the most powerful human sorcerer to have lived, then I'm not so sure he would allow some Duyain prisoners to dupe him. I could be over thinking all this, but who knows how powerful Shae got over 2,000 years.

To the OP - I've picked up on some inconsistencies with The Consult meanderings, I striked it up to simple plot error. If there is a unifying explanation, appears we don't have enough to know what it is. If I recall, I think I thought the "Children" reference was to sranc - "raining" denotes numbers to me and the sranc are the only super numerous rain-like aspect to The Consult/Inchoroi.

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