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Messages - Jabberwock03

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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] - Cnaïur/Ajokli theory
« on: March 13, 2018, 02:56:18 pm »

I'm not so sure about that. According to Ajokli, the Outside is infinite and cannot be shut (obviously wrong), so what the Inchoroi think they are doing is pretty irrelevant (to Ajokli).

What matters is what the IF makes them do. Its the method they are using that's important, and that method gets him trillions of more souls with their actions, as opposed to none with inaction.
But this is the crux, Ajokli cannot motivate a mission he cannot see.
I'm saying his goal was getting more souls, which the IF does perfectly.

It says 'my house'...
Ajokli's house is hell.
Right. So the IF just happens to show Ajokli's outside, not the outside of all the other Gods.

Far, far too convenient to be even slightly plausible for TSA, imo. THough I realize we've reached an impasse here - hopefully someone else can help us out :)

I don't read it like that. The IF show you your own fate. So when Kellhus/Ajokli watch it, of course he says "Woooh neat, it's home!".
And we know most of people watching it aren't especially nice people, so it make sens they see their damnation (plus, it look like everyone except 2 or 3 characters in Earwa are damned).
I guess if Mimara watched it, she would see heaven.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] - Cnaïur/Ajokli theory
« on: March 12, 2018, 10:06:19 am »
Quote from: ThoughtsOfThelli
That can very well be the case, and I've wondered if it's possible that Cnaiür's personality was somewhat warped after his ascension from human to Ciphrang/god. That could explain it too, perhaps.

Thought the exact thing when I read. God Cnaüir is likely to be different then human Cnaüir. Matter of fact, people have expressed angles were it makes sense already. Its the boat we missed y'all.

I see it like when ascending, his worst personality traits would be exacerbated at their maximum. So yes it would be a bit different from human Cnaïur, but it would still originate from him.

Maybe it's not even the "promised world" but just an average world partly connected to the outside through few topoi, and there is in the cosmos total (or almost total) topoi worlds which would be even better to close the outside from the reality.

But I like the idea that Ajokli used the darkness of the Inchoroï to make them crash Ark in Earwa in the attemp to manifest himself into reality (but then Kelmomas was hanging around being invisible to gods and stuff).

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] - Cnaïur/Ajokli theory
« on: March 09, 2018, 10:31:42 pm »
As others have said, in Earwa what comes after determines what comes before AND the gods exist outside of time.  So it's entirely possible that Ajokli was "born" when Cnaiur walked into the whirlwind.  Cnaiur certainly had enough hatred to fit the bill as the Prince of Hate, although the trickster aspect seems lacking.  Still, I find it quite plausible.  Especially when you consider the priesthood of Ajokli deemed murder to be holy.  That sounds familiar...

Insofar as Ajokli being "different" from other gods, that's because he has access to a reverse prophet; Kellhus.  Kellhus brings him news from the Inward, and that allows him to see what the other gods can't see, know what they can't know.

About that trickster thing, I have an idea. As I understand it, Ajokli fuck up your plans at the last second and that's why he's called trickster. But Cnaiur was manipulated by a dunyain ... And twice! So I would get why Ajokli like to be an ass with people who have "a plan". People with plan can go to hell (literally), you want something? Fine, kill your way to it! Don't mess around with a plan or Ajokli will kick your ass!

 In my mind it fit.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC spoiler] - About the end of TAE
« on: March 08, 2018, 02:24:36 pm »
I highly doubt that's likely, but yeah in theory why not.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC spoiler] - About the end of TAE
« on: March 08, 2018, 10:19:39 am »
I agree, I think too that Kellhus doesn't care at all about Earwa and saving it, and he want to prevent resumption only because it fit his own goals, whatever they are (most likely, accumulation of means).

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC spoiler] - About the end of TAE
« on: March 08, 2018, 07:20:45 am »
I'm not sure that to defeat the Consult before the outside is closed would be an "happy ending" as people of Earwa would still be damned for ever.
And I'm not sure not defeating it would be "happy" either as million of souls have to be damned for it to happen.

So, great world building, with no "happy ending" in sight! I love it!

Yea, I mean I could be over thinking it. But, you would think he would see him approach or something. I did forget until now, that what made WLW-1 "see" Kelmommas was when he hollered. That is what caused the short circuit there.

You mean Sorwel about Kelmomas?
If I remember correctly, it's said that the little shit is fast as fuck and kill him in a blink, ninja style.

Quote from:  Jabberwock
I'm waiting for him to be irredeemably broken in TNG (Acha leading the "resistance" would be to heroic to sound true in that world),

Never understood this view, on Akka becoming the savior.

He is the most educated on The No-God, has somehow become a Prophet of the Past, and is no weakling wielding the Gnosis. Damnitt, Bakker doesn't have a soul if Akka don't catch a break in TNG.

That's why it would be so awesome to see him broken or even becoming a toy of the dunsult, because many people somehow expect him to be the savior. What a twist!
Even if I wish him the worst, I don't think Bakker will do it, it would be a big surprise.

If one of the 100 is the Luck God, then that god clearly hate Acha!
Anagke is the god of Fate, close enough. I think she has a particular interest in fucking with Akka.

"Fuck that dude, and fuck his whole life *show the finger*"
-- Anagke, about Achamian, c.4063 - present

I can't say I like the character, but I love his story. The guy is betrayed by everyone again and again, but he keep going, to ultimately fail at his most important purpose for him and for the world (debatable), stopping the resumption. If one of the 100 is the Luck God, then that god clearly hate Acha!
I'm waiting for him to be irredeemably broken in TNG (Acha leading the "resistance" would be to heroic to sound true in that world), maybe even joinning the consult for some reason (the dunsult turning him? bargaining his son life/soul?). That would be an awesome twist for me.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC spoiler] - About the end of TAE
« on: March 07, 2018, 09:10:08 am »
Quote from:  Jabberwock
I have to admit I would find it disappointing to have an happy ending in a world and a story like this one.

I always expected and want the same type of ending. In don't see it at all being happy, but rather bleak, but humans prevailing and having chance to rebuild civilization. I know others have expressed your sentiments, id just like to hear your opinion on why you don't/expect a "happy" ending.

I don't say it'll not happen, but it's clearly not the feeling the books gave me for now. through my reading, I had the impression that the world is realistic (for a fantasy world ... let's say coherent), and "happy ending" is not what I see when I look at resolution of real world problems. I see it like we do as well as we can to save the day while still being selfish people. And for me the book show that pretty well.
So I think we will have a bittersweet ending from Bakker.

On a personal level, I find it hard to find really "bad ending" novels/movies. And I think Bakker series would be a great place to have things totally fucked up by the people trying to do there best! Like Achamian damning every human beings forever while trying to fight the No-God, dunno.
(click to show/hide)

Moderator Edit: Spoiler Tag title

The way I read it, Kelmomas doesn't exist for the outside, it's like a rock or a tree. So Yatwer define the WLW path based on Kel not being here.
But when Kelmomas speak, the human vessel of the WLW can't ignore it, which is a contradiction with his perfect "timeless" path, and the connection is broken (imagine, you are walking on a road and a rock start talking to you!).

As for Sorwel, in my head, there is Kellhus with a line of guy kissing his knees in front of him. Sorwel is in that line focused on Kellhus. And Kelmomas is on the side watching the scene. For me the way it's described in the book (Kelmomas scrutinity of Sorwel), Sorwel just didn't looked at all at Kelmomas, he wasn't even in his field of view. And then he had a knife in his head before knowing what happens.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC spoiler] - About the end of TAE
« on: March 06, 2018, 07:12:41 pm »
I liked hyperion but not as much, and I couldn't force myself to read Endymion, I stopped after the first book for some reason. 

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