[MSJ]

I was gonna say ... aren't emotions what makes it fun to be a human? When my father died, I thanked God for blessing me with the kind of father whose absence would make me feel so awful ... made me feel so alive, so cool to feel so deeply ... to use Bakker language, to live so hot.

Exactly. Its was I addressed tleilaxu. Because someone says or does that doesn't conform to your worldview, doesn't mean "its the passions that arise from the darkness". Not to me, anyway. They just have a different worldview or what have you. You can blame for feeling annoyed as much as the person your annoyed with. Why can't you control your emotions?

But, emotions are what make us human. And, most opinions are formed off of emotions on a certain subject. Trying to relegate them to "the darkness" is just philosophical nonsense to me. We are what we are. Made and moulded by experience, each and everyone of us different from another. Blaming the darkness, when you can't control your darkness, shows the fallacy of the whole argument, to me.

[SmilerLoki]

But, emotions are what make us human. And, most opinions are formed off of emotions on a certain subject. Trying to relegate them to "the darkness" is just philosophical nonsense to me. We are what we are. Made and moulded by experience, each and everyone of us different from another. Blaming the darkness, when you can't control your darkness, shows the fallacy of the whole argument, to me.

I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing it like this. I also think this quite possibly might be what Bakker is trying to say with that whole "the darkness that comes before" matter.

Though, of course, I can't be certain.

[MSJ]

What would you need philosophy for? You can just e.g. take Newton's laws and extrapolate. Just saved yourself years of reading there 

Not saving myself anytime at all. I feel its all just ways to explain emotion and why you see the world the way you see it. And, i don't need a philosopher or Newton to tell me those things. I know why I feel certain ways and act this way or that. From my experiences in life that have made me who I am today. Its not that complicated to me. Could I use some of that to make myself a better person? Sure. But, I wouldn't use it to explain away someone's opinion that doesn't conform to mine.

[TLEILAXU]

I've honestly lost the plot here xd. Not sure what exactly we're talking about.

[TaoHorror]

I've honestly lost the plot here xd. Not sure what exactly we're talking about.

I "think" we're discussing the difference between the wisdom/benefits of self-control with the folly of all out self-control, sporting zero emotion dousing your humanity.

[H]

I've honestly lost the plot here xd. Not sure what exactly we're talking about.

I "think" we're discussing the difference between the wisdom/benefits of self-control with the folly of all out self-control, sporting zero emotion dousing your humanity.

Well, I guess I sort of "started" this with my "less emotional" comment.  Honestly, it was flippant and so it really failed to convey what I meant.  I don't think we should really strive to be "emotionless" though.  What I meant by emotional was, controlled by emotion.  And, again, it certainly is a manner of degrees.  On the one hand, it certainly would be miserable to be completely controlled by emotion and on the other, terrible to have emotion not control one at all.

My idea of "less emotional" (and I had used it to possibly describe Kellhus in the past) is to be emotion-considering, rather than emotion-driven.

[TLEILAXU]

Right. My point was basically that I agree with that and the mentioned mantra is useful for calming myself so I can analyze/exploit the situation intellectually instead of reacting with an emotional outburst à la "you're a phagget".
All this being-human-emotion talk is too confusing for me.

[TaoHorror]

Right. My point was basically that I agree with that and the mentioned mantra is useful for calming myself so I can analyze/exploit the situation intellectually instead of reacting with an emotional outburst à la "you're a phagget".
All this being-human-emotion talk is too confusing for me.

Cold calculation can be quite handy, but sometimes you need that boiling water to animate you into action

[TLEILAXU]

Right. My point was basically that I agree with that and the mentioned mantra is useful for calming myself so I can analyze/exploit the situation intellectually instead of reacting with an emotional outburst à la "you're a phagget".
All this being-human-emotion talk is too confusing for me.

Cold calculation can be quite handy, but sometimes you need that boiling water to animate you into action

Yes we probably do need some emotion.