Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - Cuttlefish

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 8
31
The Unholy Consult / Re: The Celmomian Prophecy
« on: December 14, 2017, 10:15:01 pm »
Quote from: Cuttlefish
Speaking of rabbit holes, you seem to have assumed that it was a given that Kellhus could learn magic; but as I understand it, there is no order to who is one of the Few and who isn't. It's more than likely that in Moenghus's plan, Kellhus was never meant to become a god-like wizard, but rather the ruler of the material world by possessing the empire that'd be born after the Holy War; it's also likely that Moenghus knew nothing of the Celmomian Prophecy.

Both are false. Moe was banking on Kellhus chosing the Gnosis. Remember Maithanet wrote Proyas a letter to make sure Akka was accommodated at any cost. It stunned Proyas. Gnostics was always part of the TTT and Akka was always meant to be his tutor.

And, is bet the house that almost everyone on Earwa new of the Celmommian prophecy. The prattle of crazy schoolmen and their ghosts. It was not a secret.

But how did Moenghus know that Kellhus was one of the Few?

And I doubt the Celmomian Prophecy is that common; I don't think I remember any character mentioning it other than the Schoolmen. Certainly, nobody reacts with the same dread as Achamian did when Kellhus introduces himself as an Anasurimbor. In any case, it's also unlikely that Moenghus, who was more of an orthodox Dunyain compared to Kellhus, would've believed in a prophecy - at no point does he imply that he has lost faith in the principle of before and after.

32
The Unholy Consult / Re: The Celmomian Prophecy
« on: December 14, 2017, 09:06:10 pm »
Speaking of rabbit holes, you seem to have assumed that it was a given that Kellhus could learn magic; but as I understand it, there is no order to who is one of the Few and who isn't. It's more than likely that in Moenghus's plan, Kellhus was never meant to become a god-like wizard, but rather the ruler of the material world by possessing the empire that'd be born after the Holy War; it's also likely that Moenghus knew nothing of the Celmomian Prophecy.

33
The Unholy Consult / Re: The Celmomian Prophecy
« on: December 14, 2017, 08:16:13 pm »
As for  Nau-Cayuti's soul - I tend to think that Celmomas was dying rapidly of bloodloss and likely going into shock and/or in extreme pain. A grieving father on his deathbed. I don't think the Gods showed him anything regarding Nau.

Now, this is very plausible explanation, but also a highly undramatic one. My own wee little guess is that the series, at the time Celmomian Prophecy was written, wasn't planned that far ahead, so Bakker wasn't resolved on the idea that Nau-Cayuti wasn't dead and instead became the No-God, so he wrote him as if he had died and gone with the Gods; but there might be more to it. I don't think it's just Gods tricking Celmomas or him dreaming. It really was Nau-Cayuti, or another Anasurimbor who resembled him enough that Celmomas thought it was him...

One who gets to ride with the Gods, outside Earwa's spectrum of time...

Hmm...

Yeah, I think it's Kellhus, who is going to become a literal God eventually in the series, and cause the Prophecy. But it's doubtful whether Celmomian Prophecy was actually neccessary for Kellhus's rise to power - if it didn't exist, Achamian would've still been surprised at seeing an Anasurimbor, and would still have been possessed by Kellhus regardless of any prophecy convincing him of Kellhus's prophetiness. Still, since it happened, it has to happen.

34
The Unholy Consult / Re: The Celmomian Prophecy
« on: December 14, 2017, 12:57:19 am »
If you reread the dream at the end of TGO, NC was not converted, or even seemed to be bothered by the IF. He was simply shoved in the Carapace. And, he worked.

I made the monumental mistake of buying the book off of Kobo, which allows me to authorize it for only one device that I don't have with me, so I can't actually check the book right now (fucking hell Kobo) but I vaguely remember the Consult Dunyain mentioning to Kellhus that Nau-Cayuti too was converted by the Inverse Fire. The dream sequence from TGO takes place before this, while he was still being taken to Golgoterrath after his death is faked. As I understand, he was taken there and tortured, but this did not break him, so he was taken to the Inverse Fire, which did, and shoved into the Carapace.

As far as who gave the prophecy to Celmommas, we have two choices.

1: Ajokli, though I'm not to sure about this. People always go back to the four horns. Because of the four horns.

2. Gilgoal: who I think to be who it was. Two reasons. One, after giving the prophecy, Gilgoal took Celmommas the same way Yatwer took Sorweel. As, Celmommas was an adherent to Gilgoal. Two, four horns. I think Ajoki has four horns coming out his head. I believe Gilgoals four horns are apart of his crown. I could be wrong, that's my interpretation.

3: Almost forgot this. In the Golden Room, the mutilated make a remark that Ajokli is hiding from the other 100. So, I can't see Ajokli forewarning Celmommas about that end of the world.

But how could any of the Gods warn Celmomas about the end of the world, when they themselves can't understand it? Unless it is the literal end of the world, in which case, I don't think it's safe to say that the Anasurimbor of the Prophecy has been revealed as the world, well, still exists.

35
The Unholy Consult / The Celmomian Prophecy
« on: December 13, 2017, 09:09:27 pm »
I've been thinking about the Prophecy lately, and two questions emerged. First of all - who was the Anasurimbor at the end of the world? Is it an Anasurimbor yet to "happen" like the crab handed boy or Kayutas; was it Kellhus, or was it Kelmomas?

Secondly, the Prophecy was told to Celmomas by his son Nau-Cayuti, who was IIRC "riding with the Gods". This is interesting, because the last book revealed that Nau-Cayuti was exposed to the Inverse Fire, converted to Consult and merged with the No-God. So who did truly give the Prophecy to Celmomas? Was it the No-God/Nau-Cayuti, was it the gods themselves or was Nau-Cayuti's soul ultimately saved and redeemed?

36
The Unholy Consult / Re: Who actually liked TUC?
« on: November 10, 2017, 12:10:25 am »
I didn't very much like it, I'm afraid. In addition to prose being hard to understand at parts, I felt like a lot of the storylines hit dead ends. That, and my every favourite character getting killed off made this one the book I least enjoyed.

Bakker wanted us to be dismayed by the ending - don't let him manipulate you, let him know we're too quick to allow us to be Dunyain'd by him - LOVE the ending, toss the book up into the air and shout to the heavens, "Humanity loses, AWESOME!"

Perhaps... Perhaps we should just give in. The world should be destroyed! Rape monsters and genocides for the win!

37
The Crabikiad / Re: What's the story!?
« on: November 09, 2017, 03:15:14 pm »
Don't forget about the 4 dunyain running the Consult now. I hope they aren't off-screen the entire series.

Oh yeah, them too... Well, four is more than one, so Crabicus is handicapped (heh) in the race. But the four Dunyain are constrained by the Dunyain dogmas, while Crabicus is free to grasp the world all by himself, without a thousand years of conditioning, so maybe one will become more than four. But yeah, that's a good point, even without Crabicus, the ongoing Dunyain presence would make things different... Perhaps ending with the Consult's plan being accomplished and the world being sealed.

38
The Unholy Consult / Re: Who actually liked TUC?
« on: November 09, 2017, 03:02:21 pm »
I didn't very much like it, I'm afraid. In addition to prose being hard to understand at parts, I felt like a lot of the storylines hit dead ends. That, and my every favourite character getting killed off made this one the book I least enjoyed.

39
The Crabikiad / Re: What's the story!?
« on: November 09, 2017, 02:57:27 pm »
What has made this series what it is were always the Dunyain. In addition to personally considering Kellhus's point of view delightful to read, it's objective that the subversion of usual fantasy tropes came from Kellhus's influence in the world; a world united before the evil was reading to face it, the fight brought to their doorstep, etc. So that's where Crabicus enters the fray - he is the character whose Dunyain mastery will prevent the last trilogy from being a repeat of the unlikely heroes uniting to prevent the destruction of the world. I'm nore interested in how he'll be different to his grandfather - posessing all the power of the Dunyain, but very little of their education, what new philosophy/religion or maybe even school of magic will he come up with? Anyway, every fantasy series has its heroes, all sorts of them, but only the Bakkerverse has the Dunyain, so I expect much from the last of the Dunyain.

40
Literature / Miles Cameron's Traitor Son Cycle
« on: July 21, 2017, 01:57:30 am »
Curious if anyone has read this series of books. Here's a link to the first one:

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13616278-the-red-knight

I finished the third one day, after finishing the previous two a few years back. I am not recommending this series in any way, I have actually grown to dislike it, and the only reason I kept reading is because I'm kind of a completionist, at these things, not sure if I'll pick up the fourth book though.

Anyway, I hate every character (the lead character is a huge Mary Sue that excels at everything he does, and not in a übermensch Kellhus kind of way; various other characters have very weak and simple personalities, etc.), three books in and I am not even sure what the story is supposed to be about and, well, the setting. A lot of fantasy writers toil hard to create deep, engaging and rich settings; the author here has had the brilliant idea of just ripping off the real world, bending it slightly, adding magic to it and calling it a day.

To his credit, he knows the Middle Ages well; not specifically the politics of it, but the warfare and life style. Most of it reads as a filler, though; there is hardly any depth.

Anyway, why did I open this thread? Because I'm curious if anyone else has read it, and how they compared it to Bakker. Maybe five or ten years ago, I would've eaten it up, but nowadays, it is simply not very engaging at all.

41
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Kellhus and future stories
« on: July 19, 2017, 09:55:48 pm »
If Kellhus is Ajokli then Esmenet is Yatwer and Cnaiur is Gilgaol. :3

1) Kellhus spoke about himself being not a person but a place. Like, a place of multiple ascension? He is an outside-port (as in space-port), capable of launching people to godhood. Dunno about Esmenet, but Cnaiur seems like a ciphrang who will devour even other ciphrangs.
2) Ajokli is hunted by the other gods. And if he is Kellhus and they are his mortal companions and/or enemies, it gives a reason for such war in the Outside. They've all leveled up tremendously -- and circumstance "everyone wants that smartass Kellhus dead" leveled up with them.

Kellhus refers to himself as a place more than once, throughout the entire series; especially when he enters the probability trance or just super Dunyain mode. It's how Dunyain view themselves, I think; more a place to be filled with the world, in their observations, than actual persons.

42
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Kellhus and future stories
« on: July 19, 2017, 01:48:44 pm »
Also...poor Akka, just imagine if this was true, after everything that happened between him and Kellhus, he finds out Kellhus took over his son. He just can't win! :P

Well, it's as Cnaiür puts it: when you are fighting against Kellhus, you must always assume you will lose, and plan accordingly.

Anyway, in a general sense, I can't believe Kellhus is done for. Kellhus is what made the series; the character that turned everything upside down by pre-emptively unifying the world to finish of the big bad ancient evil before it could be mustered. Without him, it's just a darker re-telling of almost every fantasy epic ever made.

43
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Sorweel
« on: July 17, 2017, 08:42:54 pm »
Sorweel is the most "regular human" character in the series; I found that the only part of him that felt Bakkerian was his almost comical levels of lust (I laughed out loud when he got aroused from Serwa looking at a pouch on his belt, because it was close to his crotch). Which makes him, imo, uniquely likable - to cut it short, he was a decent guy. Alas, Earwa is not the place for decent people, and men are playthings to demons...

Also, I think I'd have enjoyed him trying to survive through the Second Apocalypse and No-God's resurrection. I wish he wasn't dead.

44
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Nitpicks...
« on: July 17, 2017, 04:24:15 pm »
Genetics in this series works the same way incest does for Targaryens in ASOIAF. There is a mechanic there, but it's not a realistic one; just hush and let the fantasy genre flow over you.

45
The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers]The Incû-Holoinas
« on: July 17, 2017, 02:49:04 pm »
The Consult Dunyain themselves explain that their goal lies not in the murder of the world, but in the art of it. Presumably, the only way to close off the world is through killing it with No-God, not just randomly massacring everything.

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 8