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Messages - Moosehunter

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The Unholy Consult / Re: Another (perhaps) simple question
« on: May 22, 2018, 01:45:14 pm »
I have just finished both books in Peter Watts Firefall series.

I loved them. It was interesting that neither book was "about" the events unfolding and rather seemed to be an examination of consciousness and intelligence (human and otherwise).


Not that this is the right thread, lol, but you don't think the dead babies are a meta-physical phenomenon? You think its strictly biological - some kind of world wide virus (or whatever) that kills all the unborn?

I've always suspected that Bakker didn't think this one through when he came up with it.

Is the world sealed when we reach 144k souls remaining or is it permanently closed when we reach that figure?

The fact (well, according to the dragon) that souls "pass no further" when the No God is active suggests that the Outside is closed immediately upon resumption. If souls cannot get out then possibly souls cannot get in and that is why all babies are stillborn.

However i would not have thought that souls were linked to consciousness given that the weapons races are conscious but soulless , and some nonmen are still conscious but their souls have achieved oblivion. I may have misinterpreted the nonman part however.

Do souled races operate to different rules? Did Bakker mistakenly not flesh out the idea properly during the PON trilogy? Or is it intentionally vague? I really wouldn't care what the answer was if i thought we would ever get an answer.

The Unholy Consult / Re: The Cover
« on: October 19, 2017, 12:57:49 pm »

Having trouble posting a picture.

Anyway. Our book cover has reared it's head again.

Well, I finished the Glossary today - fucking finally! While I'm still convinced that the deaths of 4121 involve Kellhus' then recent Daimotic sabbatical, I've also become convinced that some of them - given other entries mentioning religious Excision - must have something to do with the Excision of Byantas (Glossary entry Byantas).

So basically Byantas and his disciples/main followers were all deemed apostates and killed?

Not something i had considered before. Personally i had assumed it to be early experimentation with Decapitant replacement and control. Range, recall, familiarity with the subject being important early on. Has he learned to create Ciphrang from fervent followers maybe?

It was interesting that Bakker killed the conversation dead when asked about it in his reddit AMA.  Bakker has stated in the past that the glossaries are to be no more trusted than real world accounts by biased historians recording events both during and long before their time (at least how i interpreted it). Meaning you are probably correct. He has given us as much as he intends to on this subject and it has no further bearing on the series. Just another morsel for us to pick to death.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoiler] Minor Aurax Question
« on: August 21, 2017, 08:09:34 pm »

Take out all the duplicate letters:

Now reverse it:

That should clear it up.
Yes, yes. I'm surprised everyone didn't immediately understand it.

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The Unholy Consult / Re: The Collected Works of Emilidis
« on: August 07, 2017, 05:59:50 pm »
The skin-spies sex is also confused. Hermaphrodites maybe?
Skin-spy sex is one of the things in this series I still have less than zero idea about. I still don't get how Ikurei Xerius could be having sex with Istriya-spy for years without ever noticing she had a penis.

But it certainly seems like the Inchoroi just like sticking penises on everything.

We don't actually know just when Istriya was replaced though.

I once floated a theory that it could have been only after Skeaƶs was discovered.
My reading of it has always been that she was a replacement for Skeaos. Even on rereads I didn't see anything to suggest she was a skin spy prior to that. Did Kellhus lay eyes on her can anyone recall. Was she present when he noticed Skeaos?

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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC spoilers] The visions - Not Ajokli?
« on: August 06, 2017, 07:54:14 pm »
I felt RSB was giving us a yes on it being Ajokli. In much the way that Kelmommas was always the No God because he eventually became the NG, I believe Kellhus was always possessed by Ajokli because he was eventually possessed by Ajokli.

Still.......i never trust RSB:-)

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"Kellhus sent Malowebi back to punish the Satakhan for violating his treaty with the New Empire." - RSB Reddit AMA Aug 2017

The Malowebi/Ciphrang sent to kill the Sathakhan was simply a vehicle to get Malowebi as a POV character. Although RSB has been less than truthful (misdirection not malice) in the past, he tends to say RAFO if something may have further significance.

He also later added this when asked if we'd find out what happened with Ciphrang-Malowebi/Malowebi's Head:

Quote from: Bakker
Malowebi will not rest until Likaro is punished for his treachery!

Is this a joke i wonder given the many "Curse Likaro"s that we read?

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoiler] Heron Spear?
« on: August 04, 2017, 09:38:03 am »
Well that would be shitty, huh?  Everybody(the ones who survived, anyway) thinking maybe they have a weakness to exploit, and at the first major battle they discover to to instead be a new-found strength.  Que disaster, and the perishing of the second major force at the hands of the No-God.  Up next, the plains of Mengedda, since Bakker is such a fan of history repeating?

Profgrape and I have discussed at length geographical choke points in Earwa where any humanity left might be able to mount a resistance...

Short list so far ;).


The Osthwai Mountains although the eastern end presents problems.

Back through the Gates to Eanna or through Jekk.


Okay i'm done. Zeum seems the only safe option but realistically mountains don't seem to present problems for Sranc as the Yimaleti was described as their mother/cradle or something.

The Unholy Consult / Re: The Collected Works of Emilidis
« on: August 04, 2017, 09:28:23 am »
The barricades

The crazy ass gravity armor the red dude was wearing

5 Other flaming swords

The Immaculate Rim. I enjoyed it's description when the Red Ghoul was slaughtering Sranc.

I feel Bakker was much more forthcoming and precise in his answers during his later visit to reddit.
He really consolidated some lines of thinking for me. Looking forward to my rereads now.

The following were 2 points that i was spending a lot of time pondering and a redditor got an answer to both.

"There's a fine line between dreams lying and dreamers misinterpreting. Kellhus sent Malowebi back to punish the Satakhan for violating his treaty with the New Empire." - RSB Reddit AMA Aug 2017

Akka's dreams haven't been manipulated. He is misinterpreting.

The Malowebi/Ciphrang sent to kill the Sathakhan was simply a vehicle to get Malowebi as a POV character. Although RSB has been less than truthful (misdirection not malice) in the past, he tends to say RAFO if something may have further significance.

Kellhus is absolutely dead. It is absolutely Ajokli that has manifested in Cnaiur and he cannot find Kellhus.
Is Ajokli trapped on Earwa in a physical sense now? Has Kellhus somehow supplanted him on the outside?
Can a God be supplanted given that they are a greater shard of a whole?

A part of me thinks that we are not finished with Kellhus even though he is "dead". Another, greater part, thinks RSB is completely genuine here and that Kellhus was simply outclassed from the get go (the Circumfixtion).

And just like his father, he is murdered at the culmination of his planning by a mad son.

That is very well said Sharmat. So obvious that i had overlooked it.

[EDIT Madness: Sorry, hovering. Fixed your quote tag.]

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Kellhus and the Carapace
« on: August 03, 2017, 02:30:34 pm »
Does anybody understand why everyone in the ordeal sees kellhus floating down when it's really the Carapice? Is it just some mass hallucination or something, as it isn't even kellhus inside there.

[EDIT Madness: Title.]

RSB has confirmed that it's a hologram to nail the Ordeal in place while the Carapace fires up.
He thought it was obvious given the Shae/Mutilated hologram scene.

The Thousandfold Thought / Re: Why did Moenghus leave Ishual
« on: August 03, 2017, 12:45:16 pm »
Anyone else starting to think we'll never know and maybe the inconsistency about "tracking Sranc" is just a mistake by the author?

After his reddit AMA i believe he is deliberately giving slightly differing accounts.
Some entries are slightly different between the main body of the book, the subsequent glossary entry (if applicable), the What Has Come Before and then bits and pieces RSB reveals or obfuscates further in interviews.

He basically said that it's okay for us not to know the answer to something and our frustration is our own issue.
On the one hand, this has made me relax to a degree regarding some of the many many things i want to know. Knowing that they are deliberately left to our interpretation, and there is only a subjective answer and no objective answer is quite brave.

On the other hand, the search for answers is the primary(maybe secondary) motivation to keep reading. If i'm not getting the answers to main plotlines, am i going to continue reading.

I am. I understand that others, and we have seen some very frustrated fans in the forums, may not.

The Unholy Consult / Re: Thoughs post-AMA slog
« on: August 03, 2017, 09:10:10 am »
RAFO's from Reddit:

"Hi Scott. Big fan since i picked up the first book back in 2004. You're the only author i still purchase in print form.
About your latest book: The Unholy Consult.
I'm going to leave others to ask about the Golden Room, Kellhus/Ajokli and whether or not Shauriatus is soul disperded amongst the Dunyain.
What i really want to know is what is the significance of all the untimely deaths in 4121 and does it tie in with Kellhus training in the Daimos. Anything to do with the Decapitants.
And if you are feeling really generous, could you say if we will ever hear more of Eanna and the tribe that repudiated the Tusk.
Many thanks"

Some shrewd questions, SimilarSimian... I fear your spade has struck hard, golden RAFO.

Are the gods actively at odds with one another? It seems like Ajokli and Yatwer at least are on opposite sides in this thing.
Will we see anything from the people of Eanna? I assume every child being stillborn is a global thing, and raises concerns all over. Are there any eastern Nonmen? Nonmen that were never exposed to the Womb Plague?
I feel like Zeum, as the only intact Earwan nation will play a large role in The No-God.
And one small final thing, as I was browsing the Appendices last night, I noticed that Ikurei Conphas' entry has no date of death... I'm guessing that it's just a glitch saved over from TTT appendices and never updated, but you've thrown a few curveballs that I have missed over the years.

Yes, the Gods do strive and compete in their incomprehensible ways. Zeum has no choice but to throw off its arrogance and insularity, and as for Eanna, all I can say is RAFO.
The Conphas entry is just an oversight. Some 'errors' are intentional on my part, however. For one, prescientific encyclopedias are messy, messy things, and for another, working on the EG makes me feel like God... a cruel and wicked one.

Big fan of world building, so i have to ask: What is in Eanna, and will we see it at some point. I know from a world building POV that all authors need an end to their world (this question could also be asked of Tolkien, GRRM, etc.), but the Kayarsus mountain range at the Eastern edge of your map makes me wonder about the relationship between Eanna and Earwa.
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RAFO - the second one!
One thing I can say is that edges of my maps will never be filled in. What characterizes ancient worlds, profoundly, I think, is the degree to which they are encircled in darkness.

Hey Bakker! Apperantly you have replied already to my questions in the forum so I deleted them from here. One new question now,did Serwa, Kayutas or Saccarees survive?

That would be a big fat RAFO, my friend! Unless, that is, that dumptruck I've been fearing finally finds me in the near future. In which case, they are duly dead.

A question that might get a BIG RAFO: When did Ajokli and Kellhus reach an agreement? Did it ever happen or was Kellhus "ambushed" by Ajokli in the Golden Room (since it is topos it was possible for Ajokli to enter the world). I have a hard time imagining that this was what The Thousandfold Thought was supposed to lead to. If Kellhus made a bargain with Ajokli already at the circumfixion (as some suggest) it seems to me that TTT died with Moenghus and all the plans and The Great Ordeal was really the actions of an avatar of Ajokli, designed to elevate him above all other gods.

Think of the gradual possession suffered by Sorweel whilst wearing the Amiolas. Kellhus knew something was up, but the 10-sided die was cast. The great weakness of the Dunyain is the weakness discovered by Moenghus. For all the power of their intellect, their spirit is actually quite weak.

Thanks for making these books my friends and I are completely obsessed with. Just have a few questions.
1) Not much info is provided regarding he breaking of the gates. When the mean of Eanna came to Earwa. Is there anyone left in Eanna? What else is happening on this world outside of Earwa and Eanna? If there are men, non-men, or other lifeforms elsewhere, can they sense Mog Pharau? Can the creators of the Ark sense him from their faraway home? We know more about the void than we do about anything beyond the Kayarsus!
2) Where is the heron spear!? I've been teased by the heron spear for 7 books. It says in the glossary that it was lost when the Scylvendi sacked Cenei. I was so sure that Cnaiur had it and was going to bring it out at the last second, but then he didn't.
3) Thanks for at least mentioning characters like Xinemus and Inrau in this latest volume. In previous volumes it really felt weird that somehow they had been completely forgotten, even though so many years had passed.

Thanks, apreche!
1) RAFO. 2) RAFO. 3) Your welcome. I agree. The texts should have been more interpolated.

End of RAFO's:

My guess is that Eanna is coming to us but we are not going to Eanna. Whether that simply entails us gaining some knowledge of what is happening/happened out there or that tribe physically coming to Earwa. I always thought it somehow pertinent that RSB left a tribe there and made sure to draw our attention to the fact that they could invade again with the destruction of the Shiradi Empire.

4121 may turn out to be Kellhus using the Daimos in some way similar to the Psukhe/Gnosis dream messages. He can move between vessels/souls but only if he is very familiar with the person (i'm really stretching here).

He seems to have made it quite clear (for RSB that is) that Ajokli has been subverting Kellhus gradually for some time. Possibly as far back as the Circumfix.

I think i'm going to start the slowest reread ever.

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