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Messages - EdwardReynolds

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I dont think they posted any. Could have saved a world of hurt.
The Ordeal posted sentinels in the ruins of the Akeokinoi. Naked Scylvendi painted with camouflage snuck up on them and killed them all. The rest of the Ordeal were already fully occupied at Golgotterath by this point, so even if any of the sentinels had lived long enough to send some sort of message, it would not have helped.

If a bow can even reach the height a schoolman on watch would be up at.
There seems to be a limit on how high above the Ground a sorcerer can conjure an echo to walk upon. Even Serwa couldn't get high enough to take out the wielder of the Spear of Sil. Kellhus could get right up to the top of the Upright Horn, but he might have been using Ajoklian thaumaturgy rather than sorcery.

Huh. Right, some how I had no idea. I knew the Schoolmen were walking on an echo of the ground not 'flying' but never noticed anything about there being X distance as being the maximum delta between the surface and foot. Its always seemed they are low enough to get hit by missiles so they were close enough for their offensive spells i.e. it makes sense that dragon heads only puke fire out to a certain just never noticed anything that indicated the ground echo having such a low limit.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Inchoroi in future books
« on: August 09, 2017, 06:24:17 am »
Yeah it's kinda weak the Inchoroi are just extra-rapey versions of the already-rapey Progenitors.

Is there anything that says the progenitors are rapey? All i remember is that they exist, I dont think anything about them is explained. Glad to be proven wrong, but afaik we have no indication of anything about them other then they come from space and are damned. As is pointed out thoroughly in the books it doesnt take much to be damned. Born in the wrong place? Damned.

There were scouts, the Scylvendi took them out.

Uh huh, so a veteran army at the end of their objective all of a sudden doesnt mind that all the scouts are being killed in one sector? Or that all the scouts are being killed? Some of the scouts have to be schoolmen since they can basically fly.

You really think no-ones going to not kick a stink if mages start getting salted? If a bow can even reach the height a schoolman on watch would be up at.

I dont think they posted any. Could have saved a world of hurt.

I know they munched all the horses up but there are no scouts at all anywhere?

The horde is supposedly goneski, why there arent masses of scouts all over the place around the ordeal blows my mind. If something is killing/dissapearing your scouts in X direction, something is up. Given the short duration the Ordeal is at the Horns im not even sure where the Horde 2.0 came from, given the massive blinding dust cloud a horde generates.

Author Q&A / Re: Midlist Authors & Online Piracy
« on: August 08, 2017, 09:30:53 am »
There seems to be two camps here, it is completely fine or it is totally bad.

My own opinion runs down the middle, based on some economic theory i can only half remember so bear with my clumsy rendition. This relates to concepts like substitution, exclusivity and elasticity - like I said I dont remember the exact definitions...I did economics years ago now. 

A physical object like a bike can be taken, and the original owner is now deprived of the use (or sale) of said bike.
An abstract object like a digital file, no matter how many times it is copied, in no way impacts the use of said file by the original owner.

For both forms of object, it can be argued, the 'thief' would not necessarily spend the money from their own pockets to acquire.
However when the abstract object is stolen it increases the number of users, rather then maintains or decreases available users. I.E. shifting the bike from Household A with 5 members to Household B with 2 members reduces the number of total people with access to a bike by 3 - with the caveat that in both cases only 1 person can ride the bike at one time.
Digital content, as an abstract, does not have this limitation. This is why people feel less compunction 'pirating' media.

The FBI warnings on DVDs used to say "You wouldnt download a car" - 3D printing puts the lie to this statement.
You're goddamn right people would download a car for cheaper then buying it from the car yard if they could.

End of the day though, support the people you consume content from. Bakker chooses to not have modern alternative income streams, so go buy his damn book if you like it.
If no one buys books Bakker wont write them for us. Simple as that. Consider how long it takes to read a book, the average fantasy book is less then a dollar an hour for entertainment. Its a no brainer. Skip 5 coffees and pay for the bloody thing.

This is how he chose to make his work available, support it or it will die. Like newspapers and cable companies. It doesn't matter, our man needs sales to continue. Moralising wankery looking at both sides with a calm rational mind aside, it's not a hard decision to make. Be the person that pays for it, or shut the fuck up.

Why Akka didn't tell him about the JE is a fucking mistery for me.

Or why no one even brought up the Sclyvendi sitting right over the hill.

The Unholy Consult / Re: TUC - Moments that cut to the visceral quick
« on: August 08, 2017, 08:59:39 am »
From TUC

Kellhus betraying Proyas when he asks "What have you done" after charging him with "something must be eaten".

Moeghus personally suffocating Proyas as a beloved uncle rather then letting him suffer burning alive.

Basically the way Proyas was used up, sad story. IMO Kellhus tied Proyas up in the tree in the way that he did to 1. save him a few hours more from the agony of damnation and 2. he knew Akka, someone, would pull him down and at least get those last moments with him. I think by this point it is obvious Kellhus has some sentimentality with those 'close' to him, including Akka.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Glossary findings
« on: August 08, 2017, 08:44:16 am »
One of the entires about a Nonman has a line in there to the effect of "when he grew Tall" - to me implying this isn't a sure thing to happen and that its unusual... Any idea on the mechanics?
Off the top of my head, meaningful things have more impact on the physical in Earwa than in our world. So the greatness of feats might make those who accomplish them physically great. In this instance, Tall.

AFAIK there is no reference to a Tall Quya, could be that non magic Non-Men that achieve greatness become Tall? Quya being a hereditary caste, kinda makes sense that none of their mages manifest this trait. Lemme know if you know of a giant mage though!

The Unholy Consult / Re: Merchandising the Second Apocalypse
« on: August 08, 2017, 08:34:09 am »
Obviously. I hope he consent. And why not doing more promotion of his books or at least let others keep his page actualized?

Bakker has stated several times he is interested in no alternate revenue streams bar book sales. Hes a 50 year old dinosaur blinkered to the modern age, which is his own prerogative.
I just got a plain t shirt, some spray paint and cut out a Circumfix stencil by hand. Boom. Its not hard to whip stuff up for your self, if he wont take your money give it to people who will sell you the materials to make your own fan items. Just dont sell what you create and theres nothing anyone can do about it :)

Made a "I bear your fathers and brothers upon my arms" over a red horse skull shirt years ago. It aint hard to come up with dope ideas!

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers]What was the point
« on: August 08, 2017, 08:10:22 am »
I couldn't disagree more. The world ends so nothing matters? You could make the case that the events in the books matter precisely because they bring about the end of the world, but that is kind of beside the point. To me it wouldn't matter more if everyone ended up living happily ever after like in the Lord of the Rings. Its a fantasy world, its not real, it doesn't matter what happens to it either way. What matters is what happens to the person reading the books. To me it was an extremely interesting exploration of different philosophies as well as psychology...
If I've given the impression I'm after a Disney hero win, that wasnt my intention. Oedipus' tale is an example of a non happy ending I enjoyed. I will hesitantly chuck The Walking Dead comics up as another example of non-Disney hero wins. Or any of Bakkers previous 6 books in the series, theyre grim but not as blunt as  "And so the Great Ordeal of Anisurimbor Kellhus ended in blood and butchery" or whatever the final sentence was.

The world hasnt ended in the Erawa universe at the end of TUC, it has just recycled. The only thing that immediately stands out as different this time is that the Scylvendi weren't directly involved in the final battle this time (bar as a vehicle for Kelmomas to get into the Ark via the-thing-that-is-Serwe)

The fact that there is an apparent third series does change the tone of things massively to be fair, during my original read I had no idea there would be books 8+ so it felt like a cheap inversion of a trope at the last second to cap a beautiful series. More books mean loose ends are not so poinless.

Im being very black and white about this ... Its just an unsatisfying, cliche resumption of the status quo.

What am i missing here?

I don't get what you mean by "LOL bad guys win and all the good guys die LOLOL".... Can you explain a bit more what you mean?

Yeah if you could be more specific that would be quite helpful. Its really hard to address your question without any context.

What parts bothered you? What specifically was a let down? Who do you feel are the good guys, and for that matter, the bad guys, and which group do you believe won?

That generic 'critique', if you can call it that, can be applied to just about anything with only the slightest of adjustments....

So if you'd like to have a conversation about what you think, you're going to have to, well, let people know what you actually think, otherwise there's nothing here to discuss.

Right fair points I suppose.
The context is this series of books, and the good/bad guys is shorthand for the groups any reader coming into this book would very quickly come to formulate. As stated in the OP for brevity I stripped my comment down to black/white and threw the philosophy aside.
 Sure Kellhus is theorised to be the bad guy - hes also explicitley stated by the author (possibly in the AMA post my OP) as having the goal of ending the Resumtion and Damnation of the human race.
Akka has the same base motivation as Kellhus, but based on the compultion of his dreams. His genuine love of Esmi, Inrau, Zin, Mim, his children/child et. al., to spare them the horror of Apocalypse and Damnation (he wont share the Gnosis with Mim) at the knowing expense of his own Damnation makes him a good guy. He sure does murder a witch for Schoolman duty, and countless other bad things.
Proyas, Saubon, Sorweel etc.

Essentially if someone has a POV, barring some small and brief exceptions, they are 'good'. Or use the razor of selfishness, the Consult is obessed with self preservation and all else be damned. They have never  even had the shield of the greater good rasied in their name, they just want to save themselves. Kosoter is a great example of this, he just doesnt want to go to hell and will do anything to avoid it.

If you wanted to argue the middle ground that there are no bad guys, this makes sense in the context of PoN as it is essentially just two religeons going head to head. Sure one side is being manipulated by my proposed 'bad' guys, and their belief system is also predicated on writings likewise provided by the 'bad' guys - which is just another couple nails in the manipulation coffin. Men of the Tusk not only openly believe they are Good,  they are the easiest faction we the reader as a bunch of (im generalising) westerners living in societies based on Christain values can relate to.
Everyone thinks they themself is the good.

Perhaps I'm an ass, but having to explain who i mean by good/bad really feels like retreading ground. Especially for a comment that states it is stripping things down to the core. This world is painted in dark greys, has objective morality different to our own morality, has gods and demons that need to feed on human souls (presumptively to survive) but the basics of story tellings are still here.

Gods and the Consult might not be bad in the Chaotic-Evil DnD sense, but moraly to us as readers they are still designed to be repulsive.

Digression: I appreciate your moderation, have had a few hours trawling the forums today and i rarely see mods on forums that give a shit as much as you do, so for what its worth keep it up :) Madness is likewise doing a great job.
On the whole this place seems to be one of the least toxic places ive come accross...barring the start to my own thread haha!
Also, did i miss anything re: the Nail of Heaven or is that left untouched also?

Huh, weird I'd always assumed the Nail to be the moon. Seems its just a bright star which may or may not be something more....
Is there any reference to a moon? Im sure there are some passages that happen at night under the light of the Nail being stronger sometimes then at others. Maybe I'm dreaming.

11 just struck a pact with the universe's Satan, the world is still open to the Gods, what're ya gonna do now? I don't get it.

I see Ajokli as akin to the gods Loki (viking) or Hades (greek), they aren't at all evil.
They are often the heels of whatever story they are in, but not always. Ajokli is called the trickster, basically the same think Loki is called. Hades is the master of 'Hell' (underworld), more specifically just the place the dead go. Its not all torture and fire in the Greek afterlife. Even heroes/good people end up in Hades domain, that part of his domain is just called Elysium (heaven).

Ajokli is more complicated and not at all constrained to being the simple big bad, and remembering any of the gods actions are predicated on seeing the things happening *around* the things they cant see.
Brutal and over powering, yes, evil, no.

The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers]What was the point
« on: July 27, 2017, 07:39:31 am »
Fist off guys and gals thanks for all the replys, i love these books and love seeing other people hitting me up back with their own views:)

Second sorry for the wall of text. Just kidding im not sorry.

I don't get what you mean by "LOL bad guys win and all the good guys die LOLOL".  Like, surely, if you changed the last chapter so the good guys won an alternate version of you would be here saying 'LOL good guys win and all the bad guys die LOLOL", right?  Can you explain a bit more what you mean?
For example I will point to book One. Two. Three. Four. Five. And six. The author is perfectly capable of concluding a story in a satisfying way that doesnt involve all the shining knights killing all the orcs and no one dies. Book 7 just murders everyone on the turn of a dime at the very end. 
Book 7 explicitly outlines that souls can go to hell for eternal torment. Thats us. Im not religeous in real life, but this is clearly the relatable factor to us as readers. Humans and Nonmen are still shitty, but they dont go around creating goblins that love fucking stab wounds to kill their enemies. Scranc and the Consort are not the good guys.

Feel free to convince me the inverse is true.
If this were the real end of the story, well, yes, Bakker would be the most greatest troll-writer in the world (surpassing by far GRR Martin), what the fuck would be the purpose of the books.
I am unaware of any future books, all press has pointed to The Unholy Consort being the end. Please link me to sources - I am by no means not going to read more by Bakker, I love these (Kellhus) books.
Well first of all i'm not sure that there are any "Good Guys".
And lastly, Acha, Esmenet and Mimara are alive. Possibly Kayutas too.
Humans all have their souls sucked into hell, tbh im 0% convinced the judging eye is a worthy indication of damnation -Esmi had a whore house burned down and all the workers executed. The Tusk prayers mention 'dont judge me on my actions by my intentions' or something along this line and Esmi constantly thinks about brutally murdering people.
Her halo is a different color and only the Eye can see it when its turned on. IMO The Judging Eye is some magic god like stuff but just like everything magic and/or god related it is falable based on the source. Mimara loves her mother.
Kayutas is under the ark, hes dead as all heck, and much like Cnaiur whe we all thought was dead last time we arent given explicit proof any of Akka, Esmi or Mimara are alive. Mimara finally ditches her chorae but that doesnt mean squat, as there is explicit mention of the Horde recovering and utilising chorae at the click of fingers.

Welcome to the forum, EdwardReynolds  :)
Yeah if you could be more specific that would be quite helpful. Its really hard to address your question without any context.

Thanks for the welcome :)
Please keep rereading my OP untill it makes sense, some of my above responses clarify.
As mentioned im cutting to the bone, good and bad teams are patently obvious.

the destruction of a civilization with no hope...
The hero wasnt a hero after all?

Thats eaxactly what the last 30 pages of Book 7 does to 10 years of story. Inverse cliche is still cliche.

Also Rorschach from The Watchmen says hi.
And The Comedian from The Watchment says hi.
Deadpool says hi
Heisenberg says hi.
The Anti hero is an existing trope.

Being classically righteous doesnt make you the good guy. You dont even have to be the good guy to be the good guy. One entity in the story is trying to save the collective souls of humanity from Hell, and he got killed randomly in the las 30 pages because LOL. What was the point of it all?

(click to show/hide)

Anyway, there are still a lot of untied up plot lines and points like akka, Moengus II, and crabby etc all for a cliff hanger but this ending as far as I can figure so far is a pile of garbage.


The Unholy Consult / [TUC Spoilers]What was the point
« on: July 26, 2017, 08:30:56 am »
A decade of real life waiting and in the last 30 pages the author pissed the whole lot up the wall its just a generic "LOL bad guys win and all the good guys die LOLOL"

Im being very black and white about this but and stripping all the philosophy out to get to the root of the story, the whole exercise was pointless.
Nothing was resolved. Its just an unsatisfying, cliche resumption of the status quo.

7 book and 10 years can be boiled down to two words - dont matter
A beautifully complex world collapsing into a pile of "K Nope"

What am i missing here?

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