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Messages - Darzin

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Literature / Re: Sci Fi series as good as The Second Apocalypse?
« on: October 26, 2015, 02:30:01 pm »
The Dread Empire series by Glen Cook really reminds me of Bakker. It's a very dark world with empires and sorcerers aplenty. It really has the tone of the prince of nothing series with religious fanatics  and a Muhamad analogue vs and Asian themed despotism with magic nobility although that really does sell the series short at one point one of the main characters settles down to try and govern a small kingdom and the interaction of all the ethnic groups and classes that are shown puts most contemporary fantasy to shame.The one thing it lacks is the deep philosohy of The Second Apocalypse despite that it's tone is much closer to Bakker than George RR Martin, and I believe  someone, maybe Pat? asked Bakker if he was influenced  by it because of the similarities. Anyway if you are craving a Bakker fix the Dread Empire series should hold you over for a bit.

The White-Luck Warrior / Re: White-Luck Warrior & Sorweel?
« on: October 26, 2015, 02:16:19 pm »
Something I've wondered is how would the WLW even get to Kellhus he's pretty far north at this point. I guess he can avoid the Sranc because of his ability to choose a perfect path it'still a long walk though.

The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Iëva [TUC Spoilers]
« on: May 31, 2015, 08:40:40 am »
Maybe the Mandate didn't lie. Maybe the dreams they received were wrong on this instance.

Is Seswatha censoring dreams?

I tend to think that something we think we know is terribly wrong. So much of what we know from the dreams and the Isphyrus comes from one source Seswatha. If some of that wasn't edited I would be shocked. With Akka's new dreams I fully expect some of the sagas to be vindicated.

"he who controls the past, controls the future." 

General Earwa / Re: The Womb-Plague (A new theory, perhaps?)
« on: March 28, 2015, 07:34:21 am »
The thing is the information in the appendix is taken from the Isûphiryas of which just one copy was given to men by Nonmen and one copy of which  survived the apocalypse. The information we have in the appendix has some contradictions as well.

The Nonmen did in fact attain immortality, and the Inchoroi, claiming their work done, retired back to the Incû-Holoinas. The plague struck shortly after, almost killing males and uniformly killing all females. The Nonmen call this tragic event the Nasamorgas, the “Death of Birth.”

According to the Isûphiryas, the first victim of the Womb-Plague was Hanalinqû, Cû’jara-Cinmoi’s legendary wife. The chronicler actually praises the diligence and skill of the High King’s Inchoroi physicians. But as the Womb-Plague killed more and more Cûnuroi women, this praise becomes condemnation. Soon all the women of the Cûnuroi, wives and maidens both, were dying. The Inchoroi fled the Mansions, returning to their ruined vessel

That is a contradiction however you slice it. And why would the non men state their shame to men? That they killed their wives and daughters, much easier to lay the blame on the Inchoroi, it is true after all in a way.

Also their some hints of this in the four revelations of Cinialjin.

And he stands in the blackness, the eternal dank that rules the guttural foundations of Siol, his hand upon the neck and shoulder of his daughter, Aisralu, who even now clutches her belly, her womb, groaning against her headstrong pride, whispering, Please… Father… Please… You… Must…

That is the sole curse of the Ishroi, she hisses. He is sack, a net bound about furious, ice-cold fish, each part of him thrashing, fleeing, and he howls realizing, for the first time in ten thousand years comprehending, that he is a thing of meat, that he is of the self-same flesh, the very thing that nourishes him, boar-squealing, bloody and alive. To only hope they had fathered their sons!

And he just… pushes… her… Aisralu… A motion too banal to be anything but murderous and insane, opening a door, perhaps, or closing one, and he feels it, the kiss of skin forming to skin, the hand of the father across the nape of the daughter, thecherished daughter; a push and nothing more, an effort slight enough to slip the nets of awareness, to be no effort at all, and still, miraculously, impossibly, violent with excess, savage, a crime unlike any other; the bare palm against the nape of her neck, her shoulders hunched about a ravaged womb,

It's describing the Womb plague and him killing his daughter, note all the references to ravaged wombs and this his much to soon for him to be killing her to remember. She also says this to him Bakker's emphasis not mine "That is the sole curse of the Ishroi To only hope they had fathered their sons", As opposed to who fathering them? The Inchoroi of course.

 It still keeps with poetry of the idea the King asks for his immortality and gets it at first things seem great the Inchoroi retire and the Nonmen are preparing for a new golden age, but soon they realize their children are different... maybe it's just little things at first odd things for a baby to do, strange actions for a child to take, at first it's just written off but soon they begin to wonder did we make these or did they come from something else. Eventually it's clear that while these look like Nonchildren what moves them is Inchoroi and so rather than let their ancient and noble race fall to the corruption of their enemies, they destroy these abominations and the vessels that made them and set out to destroy the fathers of their children. Alternatively perhaps the Nonwomen cannot bear the shame of their wombs corruption and kill themselves. Remember Nonmen view life and death differently then we do for them living is always a choice. 

The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Meppa is X (II)
« on: March 27, 2015, 02:19:59 am »
Welcome to the forum Darzin (insofar as this is your first post here).


I might have meant chapter four or six, I was listening to the audio book.

I might be an idiot but I still can't find it, what was it that sparked the idea if you just remember some words I can search the E-book. I really like the idea of Meppa as a Saul/Paul type figure so I'd like to see what gave you that idea.

General Earwa / Re: Crazy Ass Speculation Thread
« on: March 26, 2015, 06:16:49 am »
Hmm I wonder what would happen if a Cishaurim looked in it using their snakes?

General Earwa / Re: The Womb-Plague (A new theory, perhaps?)
« on: March 26, 2015, 06:09:44 am »
Great new theory from Kalbear on Westros about what the Womb Plague was.

From what we thought we knew of the womb plague this is very odd. The womb plague was said to be the impetus for the attack - and a stupid attack, at that (as has been stated several times, the Inchoroi making their enemies immortal seems pretty stupid). But what if what they did didn't make their wives and daughters die? What if the death wasn't caused directly by the Inchoroi - it was caused directly by the Nonmen?
I still believe that the Inchoroi immortality was some kind of attack, as confirmed by Bakker. But we've seen no real evidence that the Inchoroi's tech can make plagues of death. That's not what it does. In every case we've seen their tech is used to either create new life (sranc, bashrag, skin spies) or modify life (spellcasting grafts, various body mods on the Inchoroi themselves). What if the womb plague didn't kill the nonwomen - and instead, caused them to birth obscenities?
Say, sranc? Or Inchoroi? Something that turned the women essentially into living incubators for weapons against the Nonmen?
I'm just spitballing, mind you - but let's take for granted that the Nonmen had to kill their wives and daughters in order to beat the Inchoroi. What would make the women into a weapon that must be destroyed? Destroyed so thoroughly that there exist (as far as we know) no nonwomen anywhere? I doubt it would turn them into ravening monsters, but that's possible - some kind of zombie thing, I guess, is possible. But I think - and given Bakker's themes, this seems more likely - turning them into something that produces something horrific seems a lot more likely.
So then the Inchoroi's plan was not to give their enemy immortality while killing the women. It was to make their enemy into something like the Inchoroi - something that would naturally ally with the Inchoroi. The Nonmen would survive and do whatever they want, but every child would be with the Inchoroi. Every birth would aid them and hurt the Nonmen. The very act of living would win the war. So the Nonmen did what the Inchoroi did not expect - they exterminated their women. The Inchoroi were somewhat prepared, having also created the weapon races (this is another sign that the Inchoroi did not do this as an accident but did it to wage war - they had created the weapon races to fight and were ready for a fight), but they weren't expecting such a brutal response.
And naturally, this would not be recorded. Why would the Nonmen state their shame? Wouldn't it be easier to elide the truth and blame the Inchoroi for killing their women? It's true, after all - just not directly true.
It's also a potential link to Mimara and the watchers of the gates. If there are no women - how can there be anything with the Judging Eye? How can anything be seen as truly Godlike at that point? I'll think on that more.

I really think this might be the answer to some of the questions bout the womb plague because of you look at what is recorded in the appendixes it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Meppa is X (II)
« on: March 26, 2015, 05:45:44 am »
I'm not understanding your reference to chapter 5, are you saying Meppa is Conphas?

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