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The Unholy Consult / Re: The Dûnyain, Shaeonanra, and the Mangaecca
« Last post by CoolCatCid on June 10, 2024, 07:04:33 am »
Is there actually any evidence (textual or authorial comments) that suggests that the Consult created the Dunyain? I really can't think of any reason why this theory would be true, and as you mentioned, it just introduces a whole bunch of problems that have to be dealt with. I'd also note that it would seem weird for the Consult to have created the Dunyain as Dunyain philosophy is incompatible with Consult thought (as well as verifiably incorrect). Most noteworthily, the world of Earwa is non-deterministic (something the Consult would be well aware of).
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The Unholy Consult / The Dûnyain, Shaeonanra, and the Mangaecca
« Last post by H Wilson on June 09, 2024, 10:34:33 am »
Many people have postulated that it is Shaeonanra speaking through the Mutilated, based on extratextual remarks from the author, as well as hints in the text, such as the speaking in rounds, or the line "the truth spoke with one soul" [paraphrased].

Likewise it has been suggested that the Consult created the Dûnyain, or directed them to Ishual. The biggest difficulty that this theory faces is the fact that the Consult clearly do not know who the Dûnyain are, as seen in the epilogue of TWP, and elsewhere throughout PoN. There are a few way around this, though, and in this post I will present a new explanation for how it could be the Consult do not know who and what the Dûnyain are.

The first explanation is simply that they forgot. We know that you can't raise walls against what is forgotten, and with 3/4 of the Consult leadership being ancient, all it takes is for Shae to become a bit erratic and the whole endeavour falls from memory.
The other possibility is that Shaeonanra set this up in secret, paranoid that his inhuman allies had no need of soul trapping devices, and could choose to deny him the means to keep his soul in the Inward if he displeased them. We only know for certain that Aurang (and possibly Aurax) has no knowledge of the Dûnyain.

These two explanations seem unlikely, though. The problem with the first idea is that the Inchoroi seem to have decent enough memory, so an undertaking such as this would probably not be easily forgotten, and the second falls apart because Shauriatas appears to be on good terms with the rest of the Consult, and they seem to need him as much as he needs them.

My idea is if the Consult has something to do with founding the Dûnyain (far from certain, to say the least) that it was another member of the Mangaecca, not Shae, who set them up. We know that by the First Apocalypse Shae was using his soul trapping larval thing, and that other members of the Mangaecca were able to hold on for an unnatural length of time, but were all dead by round 2. Though Shae might have a privileged position amongst the Consult, there is nothing to say his brothers enjoyed such security.
But if that schoolman should die before his breeding project bore fruit, all knowledge of Ishual would leave the world.
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The Unholy Consult / Re: [TUC Spoilers] Music for TUC
« Last post by CoolCatCid on April 08, 2024, 06:53:12 am »
In a desperate attempt to restart interest in this forum, I'll post an atmospheric black metal album that reminds me of TUC. The lyrics are about Franklin's Lost Expedition (an interesting and tragic story if you want to read about it). That sort of hopeless fight against the environment gives me bakker vibes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=yHSiojE2QnA
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The Thousandfold Thought / Re: TTT - First US Overlook Edition
« Last post by Wilshire on August 14, 2023, 07:22:45 pm »
That is correct. In classic Overlook fashion, they were inconsistent. TTT does not have "First Edition" printed on the publisher page, unlike the others. Also, AFAIK Overlook only ever did 1 printing of TTT in hardback.
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The Thousandfold Thought / TTT - First US Overlook Edition
« Last post by nicolas.secondapocalypse on July 26, 2023, 06:13:18 am »
Hi everyone

I hope someone is still around here to answer my question - don't worry, it's not about where R. Scott Bakker is and when a new book is coming out. :-)

I'm planning to revisit all the books, and as a sort of ritual I was looking at all my US Overlook Hardback first editions. I'm pretty sure I sought out and purchased all the true first editions back in the day. I might (probably) have forgotten about an oddity amongst all of them, namely TTT.

All of them actively mentioned First Edition, except for TTT. Can someone confirm this for me? I'll add a (shitty, but serviceable) picture of the publisher page, to double check. If this one might have slipped through the cracks, could someone upload the publisher page of the first true edition US Overlook so I can look for the right one?

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General Earwa / Re: How do the Sranc reproduce?
« Last post by The P on July 21, 2023, 05:12:55 pm »
Concerning superficially similar sex organs, I assume something going on like with the spotted hyena: females have a "pseudo-penis" so they appear to be male, but there is still sexual reproduction.
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General Earwa / Re: How do the Sranc reproduce?
« Last post by Wilshire on June 07, 2023, 06:12:15 pm »
Yeah check the Appendix for some of the information gaps there. They appear to be gendered, though androgynous other than sex organs. Pregnant sranc on the fields of battle.

TUC also implies evolution for the millions of sranc that come from the coasts to overwhlem TGO near the end of TUC, which basically demands more/less traditional sexual reproduction... insofar as "IRL genetics" apply  at all in Earwaverse.

There should be plenty of sranc without actual/direct/first-person knowledge of the Inchoroi. However there does seem to be some kind of instinctual knowledge, or memetic mechanism, that at the very least elicits predictable responses... ie despite having no information about the inchoroi, they still react in ways that suggest they do whenever the wild sranc happen to run into their creators.
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The Unholy Consult / Re: How big is the Heron Spear?
« Last post by Wilshire on June 07, 2023, 06:06:51 pm »
But why is Sil's shield so big? Are you suggesting that the shield is a relic from the days when the Inchoroi were huge, but the Heron Spear is more recent (or was shrunk down from a previously bigger weapon)?
That still doesn't explain how Aurang was able to wrestle the Tall and win.
Maybe just that the Tall have grown, substantially, by the time we see them? A Tall at Arkfall was 2-3 meters, whereas in TUC they are like 5?

I don't think anything in the text contradicts the idea that it is a lot larger than we assume: it was stolen by Seswatha and Nau-Cayûti together -- perhaps this is the reason Seswatha needed Nau-Cayûti to come with him -- and was transported in Anaxophus' chariot, so it could actually be ~20 ft long.
The exact dimensions are never really given, so yes it could be any/all explanations.

Then again there is nothing to contradict the idea of the spear being like a laser pointer, other than the fact that it is a silly image.
;D
This provides the primary drawback of the type of obfuscation Bakker loves - you can end up in weird places, like a fearsome weapon being a toothpick.
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General Earwa / Re: How do the Sranc reproduce?
« Last post by Madness on May 30, 2023, 04:52:13 pm »
Interesting that you mention this considering Cursed Armada's most recent video: https://youtu.be/UGAexnagoQM

Moenghus, apparently, was captured by the Utemot, *alive*, after having spent weeks with them and had learned some rudiments of their developing "Ork" language during his captivity. Lol, kind of like Kellhus at Atrithau but Moenghus the Elder conditioned Sranc, not men. It suggests there are absolutely Sranc out there that are "native" without the No-God.

As to your question, TTT Glossary outright says there are pregnant females fighting in the First Apocalypse.
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General Earwa / How do the Sranc reproduce?
« Last post by H Wilson on May 08, 2023, 04:20:56 pm »
We know that there are ten times as many Sranc roaming the Ancient North today as there were during the First Apocalypse. Yet Sranc are always depicted as male, so would appear to be incapable of mating with one-another.

There is also a Sranc who says, in reference to the Old Fathers: "Father… father! We have no fathers save the earth!", which suggests the Sranc somehow gestate within the earth (like Orks!), but I seem to remember somebody mentioning a reference to female Sranc, so perhaps that is wrong.

It is possible that all Sranc spill out from Golgotterath, but if that is the case how are there wild Sranc clans who don't even know who the Inchoroi are?
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