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91
General Misc. / Re: Politics
« Last post by TaoHorror on June 17, 2020, 04:36:37 pm »
The ungoverned globe

I read this entire article and I need some more time to digest it, but I'm ending up in a different "end game" than the writer does, which is interesting because I think they explained the road we're on very well ( i.e. the nationalists and radicals ). Assuming we're accurately dissecting political speech from policy, the "Liberal Order" is in better shape than it's ever been with international conflicts simmering down quite a bit ( USA is even trying to get out of Afghanistan ). So I find the article's finer points to be interesting and maybe accurate, but the meaning/ramifications of this I'm not sold on. Life in the UK is not remarkable different though politically it's gone through the wringer. Same in the USA, the political expression is out sizing the problems. The question is will the tail wag the dog, will politics bring us under whereas the economic malaise the article discusses wouldn't otherwise. Hell, the USA economy took a serious hit from the pandemic and yet, most of life is still going ( for now ) - I'm here typing this shit, not losing my home/job, etc. Not saying it's all coming up roses, USA may well fall off a cliff if the 30 million unemployed can't get back to work pronto, but for now the tensile strength of the liberal order appears impressive, it's taking some serious blows and yet still goes.

In short, my point is, the world economy is growing with technological proliferation/saturation ( everyone has a cell phone, rich and poor alike ), so problems will appear bigger like the USA national debt, but the numbers are just getting bigger and it may not be a big deal. As the article mentions, Brexit turned out to be a nothing burger. The USA 2020 election will be where the rubber meets the road, if the election is contested and the Supreme Court behaves differently than it did in 2000 ( i.e. did nothing and declared the winner from the first vote count ) or the President doesn't leave office in spite of a clear loss, then the concerns of the article will prove true. If Trump wins or if Biden wins and is able to transition into office without much fanfare, then the article's conclusions is incorrect - and simply put, countries have problems, liberal order or not. The economic prosperity outweighs the loss of representation in my opinion - nation states probably shouldn't have larger voices than they do with trade outcomes as that would lead to bigger problems. The fact that nation-states have to accept net economic results is a good thing, driving improvement and change so they can be competitive. There's natural balancing that takes place anyways, if you have a trade deficit, your money devalues making your exports more attractive and so on.

We have problems, big ones. But what having problems is a liberal order problem is not clear.
92
General Misc. / Re: Politics
« Last post by sciborg2 on June 17, 2020, 07:18:49 am »
The ungoverned globe

Quote
Both the radical democrats and the nationalists would create a situation in which the nation-state cannot meaningfully be blamed for the consequences of the liberal order. The nationalists accomplish this by blaming the order, performing subversion while continuing to obey. The radical democrats accomplish this by creating new institutions that make the people themselves feel responsible for their own situations. They attempt to ‘responsibilise’ ordinary voters. The nationalist strategy’s weakness is that it maintains the liberal order by condemning it, undermining the very thing it maintains. The radical democrats completely divert attention from the order by making politics about the local level – about you. You become the one responsible for the order, for the flows, and for any instability those flows bring to your community.

These local institutions, however, cannot actually alter the flows. This responsibility is built on lies and misdirection. It functions as an elaborate way of forcing the citizens to internalise the political system’s failures as their own. Radical democrats would give citizens the appearance of direct power without the fact of it, obscuring where the real power lies – with the liberal order. That would suit the order just fine. But radical democracy wouldn’t deal with the substance of the grievances that have led so many voters to grow frustrated. It would enable the order to continue disappointing people by convincing them that they are the ones disappointing themselves.

Quote
Opponents of the liberal order have substantive grievances. Rapid, ungoverned flows of capital and labour destabilise their lives. The nation-state cannot take back control of the flows, and radical democracy provides only an illusion of control. To truly govern the flows, the liberal order itself must be made directly responsible to the people whose lives it affects. As long as the liberal order is organised through global and regional institutions that have no direct links to voting populations, it will be mediated through networks of nation-states. As economic integration increases, those nation-states lose the ability to meaningfully represent their populations in the order’s institutions. The more economic power the liberal order has, the more vestigial the nation-states become. The nation-states attempt to obscure this reality with nationalism and radical democratic reforms, and in doing so they enable themselves and the order to go on, but at a cost of completely stripping the public of any meaningful say. The nation-state continues, but only as a shell of itself, unable to represent anything. The liberal order continues, but with no legitimacy, at best surviving by pitting individuals and groups against each other in local fights with no practical stakes.

Alternatively, we could decide that the only way to govern a global economy is to have global political institutions. The radical democrats scale down, situating politics far beneath the level where the crucial decisions are taken. The nationalists pretend politics still exists at the level of the nation-state, cathartically denying a reality that they themselves implicitly recognise. The other option is to scale up and make a genuine effort to build some kind of global polity.

The trouble is that there are few people who want to do this. Part of what makes both nationalism and radical democracy appealing is that these strategies emphasise our national, individual or group distinctiveness. Global political institutions collapse distinctions, making singular decisions for the whole world. We don’t want a one-size-fits-all model. But unfortunately for us, the liberal order has already given us one. In the liberal order’s one-size-fits-all model, we must all accept ungoverned flows of capital and labour and, if we try to resist those flows, economic devastation is visited upon us. We have no say in the model, because the nation-states that are meant to represent us are increasingly moribund.
93
General Misc. / Re: What are you watching?
« Last post by TaoHorror on June 17, 2020, 02:20:41 am »
So I started watching Avenue 5 and hmm ... strange beast, this thing is. I'll have to finish it to give final thoughts on it. So I'm being kicked around between thinking it sucks and it being brilliant. Some of the bits are very funny and had me laughing, which is hard to do for me with comedies. It's campy ( which I don't like ), but clever as well. Heavy cussing with callous humor which is normally not my thing ( I like to cuss, but find cussing in comedy to frequently be a cheap way to humor ), but some of it is extremely funny I have to admit. I wonder how much of the space stuff is accurate. It appears to mix accurate space physics with comic space physics, so it has me wondering, I'll give it that. Wondering if anyone else has watched it and what you think about it. Some very funny shit here and there. Zach Woods steels the show, not all of his bits are funny, but some of it will floor ya, he's a mad character in a mundane role on the ship.
94
General Misc. / Re: Board Games and Miniatures
« Last post by TaoHorror on June 17, 2020, 02:10:41 am »
I did not like Gloomhaven the first time I played, but I respected the gaming tastes of my friends, so stuck with it and so happy I did - very very fun game with great mechanics. You'll like Viticulture, another winner - but again, forewarned, it can piss ya off. I'm "ok" with Terraforming Mars - it's very well done, complex hard to learn/play game ( at least for me ), but honestly with the mild cock-blocking, it's seems like a sexy game of chess given the low level of interpersonal dynamics, just seems like the worst of both worker placement and engine building, not the best of each. But I need to play it more, give it a chance. I enjoy Sythe much more.
95
General Misc. / Re: Board Games and Miniatures
« Last post by The P on June 16, 2020, 08:05:28 pm »
Gloomhaven is great.  I had grand ideas for it, but the people and opportunities for it are inconsistent.  It works well solo (if you are into that; I am not much, but I will for gloomhaven).  I get my wife to play, which surprisingly, she enjoys.
I think they are making it digital on steam.

I like terraforming mars pretty well, scythe, too.  I played Twilight Imperium IV once.  I could see myself liking it again, but it's such a long game.  I'm more inclined to play 3 two-hour games than one 6+.  I have a friend who recently got viticulture, but the pandemic hit.  We'll play it some day.
96
General Misc. / Re: What are you watching?
« Last post by The P on June 16, 2020, 07:53:52 pm »
I love Dark.  Based on the intro, I assumed it would be some kind of creepy horror.  It's turned out to be one of the best Netflix originals.  Excited to see how season 3 turns out.
97
General Misc. / Re: What are you watching?
« Last post by H on June 16, 2020, 06:51:23 pm »
We watched Dark on Netflix.  Went with the original German, rather than the dub, since I usually hate dubbed things.

I don't usually go in for shows like this one, but I have to say it is well done and entertaining.  Season 3 comes out in 11 days or so.

VERY FUCKING SPOILERY
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
98
General Misc. / Re: What are you watching?
« Last post by TaoHorror on June 16, 2020, 06:01:42 pm »
We watched Dark on Netflix.  Went with the original German, rather than the dub, since I usually hate dubbed things.

I don't usually go in for shows like this one, but I have to say it is well done and entertaining.  Season 3 comes out in 11 days or so.

VERY FUCKING SPOILERY
(click to show/hide)
99
General Misc. / Re: Board Games and Miniatures
« Last post by TaoHorror on June 16, 2020, 05:58:50 pm »
Sounds awesome. I'd probably be up for a round! Would be fun to try it out.

TH: That's a sweet set of games. Gloomhaven is something I wish I could play but dont have the friends to play it. Terraforming Mars is amazing, Sythe is a ton of fun, and I've won my fair share of Viticulture games.

Worker Placement games brings out the best in people ( e.g. Viticulture ). I was on my best behavior with ( at the time ) new group of gamers I hooked up with until we played Viticulture and then the real TaoHorror stood up and they got me in the RAW ( fuck you, no fuck you, no fuck you! ).
100
General Misc. / Re: Board Games and Miniatures
« Last post by Wilshire on June 16, 2020, 12:40:15 pm »
Sounds awesome. I'd probably be up for a round! Would be fun to try it out.

TH: That's a sweet set of games. Gloomhaven is something I wish I could play but dont have the friends to play it. Terraforming Mars is amazing, Sythe is a ton of fun, and I've won my fair share of Viticulture games.
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