[sciborg2]

I find myself avoiding talking to people about this topic save in private email exchanges with a friend of mine.

I keep thinking public discussion will lead to depression or excusing of criminal behavior in others. This forum might be one of the few places I'd talk about it, as I figure anyone who is here is likely "infected" with the knowledge anyway. 

Curious if anyone else feels this way?

eta: I mean I'm willing to discussing positive results like Tse's or Hammeroff's, but I'm a bit wary of expressing reasoning for the negative.

[Kellais]

I agree with you that this is a...difficult topic. And i bet that on many a forum this would devolve very quickly into a flamewar.
On this particular forum, i think this has a real chance of not getting to flame-y And it is a very interesting topic.

My first problem is with definitions. The "there is no free will" tag line gets thrown around very quickly...but sometimes i wonder what the guys even mean by free will or, not having it. I think for a discussion you firstly need a solid definition. Not that i can provide one, for that i am not deep enough into the topic.

I for one, as said in the other thread (the Budda thing ), i am also freaked out by the implications it could have...as you said, people starting to excuse criminal behaviour etc. . But i am not sure you can discuss this topic without looking at both sides of the "equation" ... so positive and negative sides. Or at least it would not be that interesting to me if you did just focus on one side.

Not sure if that answers your question?

[sciborg2]

It kind of does. Thanks! It's interesting because people aren't really well equipped to handle the negative arguments, yet neither do people seem able to grasp the potential positive arguments either.

I've brought the negatives with people before, but sometimes I can smell the existentialist horror rising so I just mumble some stuff about the positives and beggar off. Not like people choose to feel horrified by determinism. I know it bothered [me] for a long time, and sort of still does, but not in the paralyzing way it once did.

I would agree the working definitions also vary so much it's hard to really say anything meaningful. Another reason I don't bother discussing it outside of small circles.

But in general I find trying to talk about philosophical things in general forums irritating. I'm not super educated on this stuff by any means but the level of ignorance....gah, it leads to that intellectual bitterness I said we have to take responsibility for. Fuck, stabbed by own sword.

[Royce]

When I discuss this with people almost everyone take for granted that their will is theirs to control. It is hard to prove it otherwise. The reason for that is that humans feel on a deep level that there is choice. You can discuss this philosophically of course, and research begin to show that there is much we do not understand yet, but until the moment comes when humans feel that they do not have free will, they will speak and act as they have it.

If research do conclude that the will is not ours, what will change? Will our consciousness and awareness change, so that we become something other than human? The notion of free will is what makes us human right? It is what supposedly separates us from other beings, so if we evolve past that notion, what will we become then?

As I have mentioned in other threads I think neuroscience will arrive at the same conclusion as eastern philosophy has toyed with, namely that "self" and "free will" is illusory. Buddhists, Hindus etc deal with this notion through mental training etc, but how does the western mind prepare for this "new" knowledge? Personally I think we will deal with it through technological innovation, but this is just guessing

Will just finish by saying that I am not at all well read in these topics, but I do regard them as deeply human, and since I am a human, I think we are capable of expressing our feelings towards them whether you are well read or not.

[Wilshire]

I don't worry about having the discussion, at least not on a personal level. For myself, I imagine I can have  a conversation about the matter and be no worse for wear. However, I do understand your misgivings for having the discussion in a public format with people you don't know. Knowledge can be dangerous, and not everyone can handle talking about every subject.

[Srancy]

War is Faith