Comments on page 2
Essentially, make a meaningful world, meaningless. 
I think this would be a Dunyain's goal. To force the world to work the way they need it to in order to control it.
I can't say I have a prediction for whether or not this is what Kellhus is working towards.
Essentially, make a meaningful world, meaningless.
I think this would be a Dunyain's goal. To force the world to work the way they need it to in order to control it.
I can't say I have a prediction for whether or not this is what Kellhus is working towards.
A couple quotes that I found interesting.
That you are being played. That you flounder in nets of your own making. The circumstances you struggle to master, Bird, have long ago mastered you. Of course you think otherwise. Like men, power stands high among your native desires. But you are a tool, as much as any Man of the Tusk.
Cnaüir is a very smart man, even though he is bonkers he has gained so much insight from his time with the Dunyain. I was reading a thread about the most reliable POV, and while Cnaüir might be crazy, his insight about the world around him seems to strike true so very often to me.
Xinemus turned from Proyas to Achamian, as though from a lesser to a greater enemy. “He cannot heal, Akka. The Warrior-Prophet … He cannot heal.
This is the end of Xin's outburst with Proyas, Akka and Esme. Xin comments before this about how all he smells about him is shit. And being blinded has led him to the realization that Kellhus is a fraud. Only problem.....everyone thinks him mad.
I love this line. "as if from a less to a great enemy" is just awesome.
Then the brilliant insight - and it helps that he's channeling Tolkien too maybe
, as only a true king can heal
The “Third Phrase” was a thing of myth in Gnostic sorcery, a story handed down to Men during the Nonman Tutelage: the legend of Su’juroit, the great Cûnuroi Witch-King. But for some reason, Achamian found himself loath to relate the tale. “No,” he lied. “It’s impossible.”
So, the meta-Gnosis is not unprecedented, which is interesting, I wonder if the current Quya recall this.
Particularly important to note that Kellhus knew that Akka lied when he said no. He likely began devising the meta-gnosis from that instant. The first thing he requests to learn is the cant of calling - I think he was preparing the teleportation cant from this instant.
Maybe not unprecedented, but I doubt if it was developed into a full branch of magic that it would have been better documented. Su’juroit may have simply theorized its possibility, or devised one or two cants/wards, or had the same problem as Serwa later on (it simply being too taxing to be of practical use).
I think what Kellhus does/did is/was likely unprecedented, but he may have been preceded slightly by the greatest Nonmen Quya of old. Even if they could still recall, which I doubt, I think it would require too much mental acuity to be within the grasp of their diminished intellect.
During Conphas' ruminations on godhood in chapter 5, he concludes that "[the] famed Ikurei Conphas was not quite human." If not human, and not god, however, then what?
There are really only a handful characters in PoN who seem even partially immune to Kellhus' ability to "make us love": Moenghus, Cnauir and Conphas. And these are, not coincidentally, the folks that Kellhus sees as his greatest threats.
The first two have inside information. One is a Dunyain himself. And the other has the intellectual heft to evaluate Kellhus' actions knowing that everything he does is intentional, with purpose.
Conphas, at first blush, is your typical vainglorious villain who from his initial introduction is set up for ignominious defeat. But as the books progress, we realize that he’s not nearly as motivated by human passions as, for example, his uncle. The more we learn about Conphas, the more he resembles the sort of quasi-sociopathic “Prime Mover” that we see in Ayn Rand’s novels: he believes his own bullshit to a degree that could only be regarded as pathological.
Awfully Dunyaini, isn’t it? Which is where his “…not quite human” comment comes in.
We’re lead to believe that Dunyain-hood is part nature, part nurture. So if Conphas seems part-Dunyain, how did it happen?
Conphas was primarily nurtured by Istriya, and to a lesser degree, Martemas -- maybe even Skauras? These together lead to how he’s initially portrayed: a privileged wunderkind who is largely the product of having the best training money can buy. So I think we can rule out his Dunyain-ness coming from nurture.
This leaves nature; like Gaga, he was just “born this way.” He is Dunyain by-nature (resisting a “down wit OPP joke” here*), hence “not quite human”.
Now, it’s not inconceivable that among the millions of births since the First Apocalypse, there are a few that just happen to possess the genetic characteristics that might approach the Dunyain ideal. They selected to increase the probability of getting the right mix. But that doesn’t mean it couldn’t just happen.
The other possibility, is that Conphas is one of Moenghus’ secret other kids. And while this theory is a nice fit in some ways, it has a number of significant issues that have been discussed in detail on the board. As a result, I lean toward the former option, that he won the genetic Powerball.
Either way, I do think that there’s evidence supporting the notion that Conphas is at least partially Dunyain, which explains his immunity to Kellhus’ charms and why Kellhus sees him as the greatest threat to his post-Shimeh plans.
Part Dunyain, but sadly, mostly douchebag. Oh what could have been, Conphas?
* Other People’s Probabilities?
I think he has a one of a kind intellect, a great upbringing that expanded his mind at a crucial young age, but also,
I think Conphas actually is a sociopath. I think this is the "defect from the womb" that Kellhus is specifically thinking about. He has no empathy, which is what every Dunyain dreams of, and what makes him so immune to Kellhus' charms. He appears Dunyain, but its a glimps into what a
human can be, what a simple man without magic or fantasy, can become if pushed in the right direction, with the right circumstances.
Conphas' lineage is something I've often wondered. Istyria calls him her grandson, Xerias his nephew. Who was the father? The mother? One of the lost Anasurimbor brothers would be a nice twist, but I don't think so. We have seen what happens to the partial dunyain children that are not tutored, vigorously, by their fathers.
As far as genetics go, its not entire impossible, but I think functionally 0%, for someone to roll the dice and become something akin to the Dunyain's 2k years of breeding control. They'd have to genetically mutate a bunch of genes correctly, all at once, and have the exact right mixture of family genetics form both parents.
Kellhus did a interesting thing with the Mandate, he tricked Akka to not telling them of his presences until he had enough to bargin with them as equals. Kellhus may do the same thing with the Consult. He could show up at Golgotterath with TGO and a ultimatum, "Ill drive the No-God and show you how its done."
Ever since reading TJE and learning that the final book in TAE series would be called The Unholy Consult, I've been convinced that Bakker is just being clever and using a name we're all familiar with to mask a secondary meaning for the title; namely that Kellhus has crossed the span of the world to consult with the Consult on unholy things (ie, sorcery and damnation). As it has already been said, a world closed to the Outside is certainly a better environment in which to pursue the Absolute
Agree. Layers of revelations.
Why does Kellhus insist on learning a cant of calling first? Does he need to send dreams to someone immediately? I've not noticed an obvious candidate for any Kellhus-sent dreams since...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
See my earlier comment. He requests to learn it first prior to learning that 2 inutteral strings are possible. He plans the teleportation cant before he even learns the first cant.
