[Wilshire]

To maximize engagement and minimize the inevitable friction between individuals, I've created this thread to establish a place where we might discuss, at length, the interactions between us.

Your posts might be moved here, or quoted in part or in full, in order for us to further understand what broke down in our social discourse, and how we might fix it - or at least not make the same mistake next time. All this, without disrupting the normal flow of conversation in a topic.

Please, feel free to post here if you disagree with how things are being moderated, or if you'd like to otherwise talk about any specific instances related to this community at large that isn't being addressed.

[Wilshire]

Quoted in whole to continue the conversation as needed. Please feel free to continue this discussion here if you'd like.

Also, i hate when someone starts a thread, bitches and moans, doesnt give us enough info to know what their issue is, then doesnt participate anymore.

Feel Free not to post in this thread anymore. I get what your saying, but i have a job and limited spare time. I might be new here but let me tell you the sentiments, of what i will comfortably gamble , of the other users here - take you weak ass attitude somewhere else. Were all here to pour our passion into a book series we love, take a jog mate. Lay off the keyboard untill you, as have accused me,  have something to say.

So, what do we think. What went wrong here?
I'd like to point out that AFAIK, pretty much everyone here has a job and limited time. Do you feel this separates you from others here?
If you find the nature of MSJ's response abhorrent, why respond like in kind? Do you feel like you were justified, and even if so, isn't acting in such a way hypocritical?

Hopefully you don't feel singled out. Due to the increased volume of people recently, this is a new thread, and this happens to be the first instance I was able to capture and redirect.

[Madness]

I support and appreciate, #2.

If nothing else, we can all gain a greater appreciation of our shared communicative foibles .

[MSJ]

Edward Reynoylds, for one i never said hateful things too you. I simply said i hate when people pop in, say, "This or that sucks" and we never hear from them again. I was just wanting info on why you have these feeling, in order to discuss them with you. Sorry, brother. I know we all have busy schedules, just thought it was another one time poster with not much to offer, imo. It seems i offended you, was wrong and im very sorry about that. I hope you except my apology.

[Wilshire]

Post moved to here at the request of the community:

>women
>reading philosophy

lol

Please avoid being intentionally or inadvertently incendiary.

If you have any questions, please let me know.

[The Sharmat]

If women really don't read philosophy I'd say that's more a compliment than an insult to be honest.

[Madness]

A good many of my peers during my philosophy degree were women, a number of my professors were women, and a number of my female peers have earned their PhDs in the interim between then and now...

And the majority of my psychology peers were women by a large margin...

[The Sharmat]

No good layabouts the lot of them, then!

[Kellais]

If women really don't read philosophy I'd say that's more a compliment than an insult to be honest.

lol...say what now? Are you serious? If so, why is that a compliment?

I hope that's ok here...i mean it's not something that was moved here or anything but reading the thread, this jumped out at me. And i'd like more info

Also, if i may, MSJ - I get your sentiment (reaction to Edward), but 1) i think it was unnecessarily passive agressive AND ... to be honest...nobody "owes" you an indepth explanation why they hate or don't like something. Sometimes people just want to vent and get some "yeah, me too!!", you know.
Also, if you really want people to get you your explanations, do you really think that the way you phrased it is the way to go? I am pretty sure a more friendly and constructive "inquiry" would have had more chance of engaging Edward.

Anyway...not trying to be the wise-ass here...just my 2 cents to the communications at hand.

[Thing called Sarcellus]

I'm not sure if I understand the nature of this thread, but if it helps here's my 50 cents...

I have found, in my 20+ years of experience on the internet, that people need to understand that text is the second most primitive form of communication.  The lack of emotion is extremely limiting and someone can read whatever "tone" they subconsciously want into It, depending on their own mood at the time.

The difference between "fuck you man" and "fuck you man " is enormous.

[Wilshire]

Sometimes I'm serious, lol

I think both sides might be taking this too personally.

I apologise for my comment about cliques,it was just a joking response to the wording, i'm rarely serious and was also going to make a joke about how 9 out 13 of "us" made it (bakker's dozen).

Jokes on jokes
9/13 is, in fact, pretty good, lol.

And I wasn't fishing for compliments - No kindness on the slog! (but much appreciated anyway)

And 4 responses in that amount of time is an insane amount of participation for us. Good enough for me: further discussion about how handsome and cool I am will be moved to the Building Better Communities thread.

Aw Wilshire, you are really handsome, cool and rich. A true Bakker fan if there ever was one!

Thanks Redeagl. I believe the same about you .

[Wilshire]

Also, what prompted him to say that? Did someone ask about them first or did he simply say "no questions about halos" before the Q&A began?

Somewhere near the start of Friday Q/A somone asked a questions about something, Kellhus maybe?, and in the answers he tacked on "and no questions about halos" - that is my vague memory. Good thing I got recordings and we won't have to rely on my shit memory once we type it up.

-And no, I have no intention of posting the recordings. Some moments were not for the rest of you. Come to the next one . Bakker the Younger will be posting plenty of stuff for you all eventually, and we'll be posting pictures. I've got a great one of him signing the Coffers .

Petty. Almost nauseatingly similar to jealous small-minded disciples hoarding their master's words for temporal power.  This author, future Zaudunyani cons and this work will not be served by secrecy of any kind.  Martin, Abercrombie and Rothfuss are most well served by fans shouting to the heaven's and across reddit anytime they get a chance to hear thoughts from their favorite scribe.

Get out of the way and spread the word.

Edit(s): Added the damage to future cons and grammar.

Oh, lol, sorry I missed this. Even if you are serious, you were invited the same as everyone else. Come 'next year' and do as you will.
And you're always welcome to make your own forum, develop your own relationships, forge your own community, make your own plans with Bakker, and hold your own fun gatherings. I'd imagine they'd be much better than the shit we've been able to pull together - let's be honest, Zaudunyanicon was a failure (really guys, 9 people?), so make a better one next year. I'd much rather go to one or watch the video than have to plan it.

Or stay here and wait for whatever scraps drop from 'jealous small-minded disciples' lol. As always, thanks for commenting, every bit helps spread the word .

I think there was a misunderstanding here that you (Wilshire) were withholding information because the rest of us couldn't or didn't go for whatever reason, therefore making us inferior and not worthy of knowing more about this world that we're all fans of. Were that the case I think Spooky's response is justified. Frankly the way you worded the original post made it seem like that, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt that it was due to personal conversations being recorded or something of the like.

However, considering you're the person who seems to be the driving force behind trying to get everyone to play nice on this board, I think you're a bit out of line here. Telling people to "come next year" like it's as simple as wanting to go (while in the same breath implying that it's justification for us not deserving to learn the same things you guys did) is arrogant and pretty out-of-touch with reality, IMO. Of course, no one who went is obligated to share anything, and for that I'm thankful for what is shared. However, as one of the administrators / leaders of this community I'd expect that you would behave differently. No amount of smiley faces is going to undo passive aggressive or sarcastic responses like that. Why would I want to go to a meet-up that is being organized by someone who treats everyone outside of his circle (yet still in his community) so dismissively?

We're all here for the same reason and while the rest of us should be thankful for what is planned, executed, and shared by those fortunate enough to have gone, I think it's up to you to remain civil and un-dickish to those that are frustrated that they weren't a part of it -- even if they did jump to conclusions.

Just my $0.02


... Now everyone be quiet and someone tell me the deepest, darkest secrets of the TNG


Edit: In typical "me"-fashion I've gone and replied to something without noticing two full pages of comments have appeared since. Feel free to move this to that community building thread or dismiss it entirely. Sorry for completely going off-topic.

[codebread]

I'd like to add to my previous post that, had I actually noticed the comments after the one I quoted, I wouldn't have posted anything because I think it was all cleared up nicely.

I should probably refresh my browser more often before typing something up

[Wilshire]

Nope, you're absolutely correct codebread. I've got a post here I'm still writing, but seriously: thanks for calling me out.

[Wilshire]

I here ya codebread.  Certainly not my intent to make people feel ostracized, and for that, I do apologize.

I was feeling attacked. As if I had somehow betrayed people helping organizing this whole thing. It takes a lot of hours to plan, a lot of hours to coordinate things, time and money to get swag (posters, patches, etc.), etc. etc. etc. And I got upset, because i felt that somehow me spending all this effort therefore makes me owe someone who showed up after the party and was upset we didn't save them cake. I am not a trained monkey, I don't preform on demand, though probably I would for tips . Because I felt attacked, I immediately went on the defensive - which was stupid.

Seems a bit strange to immediately go on the attack - calling me names no less - because I didn't do something they wanted.  Again, as if I haven't spent hundreds of hours facilitating this communities existence. Now, I can see how my comment could be read in a way that makes it sound bad. I do. And again, I'm sincerely sorry for that. But, I don't think there is a generous way to interpret Spooky's post, but I'll let them defend their position should they choose too.
---

Aside, to play devil's advocate for a minute (feel free to ignore, mostly rhetorical):
Is it out of touch with reality?
Who is owed what, and why?
How many hours are required to make one 'owed' the opportunity?
How many dollars?
How many posts?
Should we discriminate based on that criteria?
What of those that did 'pay' something, be it time, money, or both. What are they owed, and is it fair that they should have their experiences freely given to those who didn't? Exactly how much is owed, and why?
Some flew in from thousands of miles away to make it. Most spent hundreds of dollars. Some bummed a ride and a room from those generous to enough to share. Some spent years, years!, nurturing a relationship to allow this to even happen. The work that went into this has been years in the making, thousands of dollars, hundreds of man hours. Why does that make them owe anyone anything?

Isn't expecting something for nothing far more out of touch with reality?
More in touch would be to be more discriminating, not less. Maybe close the subforum down to people with less than, say, 250 posts. Let people earn their entertainment, yeah? After all, its not fair to expect something for nothing...

Of course, I'd never do that, but still the question: what's fair?
---

We are all just a community facilitating itself to exist. We are not in a business transaction. No contract, other than social, has been made. No one is owed anything other than the conversations we have here.
The exception is the rules that are set forth, which really just boils down to one thing: Facilitate conversation in a positive way, or get out. No one is above those rules, including myself. For breaking that rule, I have moved this conversation here to help better understand where I went wrong. I hope to learn and grow from the experience, and ask only that others try to do the same. For that, codebread, I thank you for calling me out. No hard feelings (smiley faces do help online communications due to the lack of non verbal ques, an aping of our ancient selves into this new medium. but a conversation for a later thread I think)