Did the Consult change Esmenets womb to withstand Kellhus's seed?

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TLEILAXU

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« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2018, 05:56:22 pm »
Quote from:  Wilshire
Kellhus isn't a real prophet because that's one of the main linchpins of the story - a normal guy falsely claims divinity to manipulate people to do his will.

I think you got it backwards there. He never claimed divinity, in fact, the opposite is true. Everyone around him claimed it, and that's when the haloes appeared. He never understood the haloes or why he gotten tthem.
I think the halos were divine. There was also a part IIRC in Tuc where Kellhus levitates without using sorcery in front of kings of the Ordeal, the divine powers influencing him manifested here as well as in the halos.
In a sense, Kellhus might be some sort of meta white-luck warrior for Ajokli, navigating through time-lines invisible to Eternity. Kellhus did say "some have always smelled your absence" to the Consult.

MSJ

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« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2018, 06:20:25 pm »
Quote from:  Tleilaxu
In a sense, Kellhus might be some sort of meta white-luck warrior for Ajokli, navigating through time-lines invisible to Eternity. Kellhus did say "some have always smelled your absence" to the Consult.

I think If there Divine they are from the God of Gods, or whatever looks out through the JE. Sorweel, and the other WLW never had haloes, so I don't see the connection there.

Mimara's are silver and we know that she is oh so holy. Kellhus's and Inri Sejenus both had gold haloes. Could it be the belief of the people? That the God approves of their divinity? I don't know. But, Kellhus never claimed divinity, in fact, throughout PoN he goes through pains to let it be known he is not divine.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 06:24:51 pm by MSJ »
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

TLEILAXU

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« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2018, 06:42:18 pm »
Quote from:  Tleilaxu
In a sense, Kellhus might be some sort of meta white-luck warrior for Ajokli, navigating through time-lines invisible to Eternity. Kellhus did say "some have always smelled your absence" to the Consult.

I think If there Divine they are from the God of Gods, or whatever looks out through the JE. Sorweel, and the other WLW never had haloes, so I don't see the connection there.

Mimara's are silver and we know that she is oh so holy. Kellhus's and Inri Sejenus both had gold haloes. Could it be the belief of the people? That the God approves of their divinity? I don't know. But, Kellhus never claimed divinity, in fact, throughout PoN he goes through pains to let it be known he is not divine.
He claimed not to be divine in in PoN to manipulate people, but in the end he comes to believe that he is Chosen e.g.
"If something something madness then how could he be so certain? something something haloes around his hands, the light of delusion"
and the exchange with Moënghus at the end:
"And what does the voice tell you?"
"That you are Dûnyain yet"
"As are y-"
"I am more *stab*."

Wilshire

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« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2018, 06:45:24 pm »
Quote from:  Wilshire
Kellhus isn't a real prophet because that's one of the main linchpins of the story - a normal guy falsely claims divinity to manipulate people to do his will.

I think you got it backwards there. He never claimed divinity, in fact, the opposite is true. Everyone around him claimed it, and that's when the haloes appeared. He never understood the haloes or why he gotten tthem.
You're confusing what he tells Proyas and what he tells the masses.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

MSJ

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« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2018, 09:30:55 pm »
Quote from:  Wilshire
You're confusing what he tells Proyas and what he tells the masses.

No. I'm not. In PoN he goes through pains to let everyone know he is not divine. Now, at this point he is considered a living prophet among the masses and is when the haloes appear.
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

Wilshire

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« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2018, 03:07:57 pm »
Then you're confusing what's said with what's meant, and letting Kellhus manipulate you.
What he tells people, and what he explicitly wants them be believe, are not the same.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

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« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2018, 03:44:44 pm »
Quit trying to be the forum Kelllhus, Banhammer! :)
“No. I am your end. Before your eyes I will put your seed to the knife. I will quarter your carcass and feed it to the dogs. Your bones I will grind to dust and cast to the winds. I will strike down those who speak your name or the name of your fathers, until ‘Yursalka’ becomes as meaningless as infant babble. I will blot you out, hunt down your every trace! The track of your life has come to me,

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« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2018, 05:37:34 pm »
On the womb topic, I’m unsure if it’s a TDTCB inconsistency but the first person to have sex with Esmenet after Aurang freaks out becomes his seed is black as well.

If there is some sort of lingering effect, surely Kellhus would have noticed. Bearing in mind the aforementioned encounter with the Eothic Guardrsman was weeks, if not months, after the first encounter with Aurang if I recall correctly.

I believe that what actually happens is Esmenet has a flashback and she freaks out.

+1

Here's my thing, there is actually no textual evidence that Kellhus isn't a real prophet.

Well, that is a good point, because we don't really know what differentiates a "true" prophet from a "false" one.  Kellhus tells us that a prophet doesn't deliver divine words to man, but rather, man's word to the gods.  Even with that definition, does Kellhus really do that?

I've always thought it telling that Sejenus could allegedly heal and Kellhus could not. Thus, the Parable of Horomon and Xinemus contrast throughout TTT.

"He cannot heal, Akka!"

There was also a part IIRC in Tuc where Kellhus levitates without using sorcery in front of kings of the Ordeal

Extratextual, I know, but at Zaudunyanicon Bakker told us this is sorcerous (or as Wilshire aptly put it, Meta-metagnosis).

Kellhus did say "some have always smelled your absence" to the Consult.

I like the imagined implications of this line.

Quit trying to be the forum Kelllhus, Banhammer! :)

The Wilshire That Comes Before Us ;).
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 05:39:21 pm by Madness »
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« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2021, 06:23:12 pm »
I was thinking about the black semen.  It could just be a gross alien biology thing.  But it could also be something akin to the "gray goo" of science fiction.  Some tiny nano machines at the root of the tekne.

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« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2021, 08:37:59 pm »
There was a discussion, once upon a time, that the Consult mediated the eventual Kelmomas with the gray goo cum ;).
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« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2021, 09:10:37 pm »
Yeah, I don't buy into the Consult preparing Esmenet's womb, but I like the idea of gray goo as part of the Tekne, toeing the line between biohorror and advanced technology.

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« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2021, 05:21:09 pm »
I think it is fair to suppose that almost every biological aspect of an Inchoroi has been genetically modified in some way, although maybe with some teleological/technological aim but possibly just as side-effects of other grafts.  In the end, it probably has much more of a narrative aim of enforcing just how "alien" they are, that the color is inverted from what we might expect.
I am a warrior of ages, Anasurimbor. . . ages. I have dipped my nimil in a thousand hearts. I have ridden both against and for the No-God in the great wars that authored this wilderness. I have scaled the ramparts of great Golgotterath, watched the hearts of High Kings break for fury. -Cet'ingira