[Madness]

Here be spoilers!

I suppose since I'm making the thread, I'll say what was thinking during the movie:

Mark Hamill/Carrie Fisher are/were an amazing actor/actress. Rey and Luke could easily be ported to Mimara and Achamian in TJE (as someone noted either in Quorum or in the facebook group).

Also, story-telling has gotten remarkably simplistic (or I just read into narrative far too often). Movies are allowed to be subtle. We're doing story-telling and ourselves a disservice catering to the lowest common denominator rather than raising the bar. I did spoil myself before I saw the movie but - while she was awake at least - I pretty much forecast all the major beats of the plot to the SO about a quarter of the way into the (longest ever, apparently, Star Wars) movie.

Miscellaneous aside, a lot of homages by Johnson, specifically BSG and old Samurai/Westerns (I'd have to look it up again but apparently there is a person-antecedent that both Lucas and Johnson were paying tribute to).

Also, a lot of people on the internet saying that *that* lightsaber battle is the best choreographed in the entire series and that the fight in The Phantom Menace is runner up. Sorry, Anakin and Obi-Wan in Revenge of the Sith is the single best piece of choreographed lightsaber battle in the whole series, thanks very much.

Looking forward (as I know FB is, without even having seen the movie) to what Johnson is going to do with a whole trilogy - Disney made a terrible decision with this new generation trilogy letting each writer/director make their own single movie arcs and not having major plot beats planned across the trilogy.

EDIT: Also, since GJ got such a laugh when I was texting him through the movie: date night at the theater was specifically planned so that the SO could have a nap away from work and the children and I could likewise have a night out. We made out, sat in the back of the theater, she fell asleep, and I drank half a mickey . It was great.

[Cuttlefish]

I very much disliked this movie; I generally have a fatigue towards movies of this sort, but beyond that, this was a bad movie.

a) Pointless plotlines of Poe, Finn and Rose - UTTERLY pointless wastes of time that weren't even executed well.

b) Utter failure of everyone involved. The Rebels constantly fail, and the only reason they don't die off is because the First Order also fails. All our main characters fail.

c) "Fuck you" level red herrings. Remember the mysteries they introduced about Snoke and Rey's parentage in the first movie, and people spent years talking about it? Well, none of that matters, so fuck you audience. Snoke is just some guy who dies and Rey is a nobody. It's okay if this is the direction they wanted to take the series, but if so, these things shouldn't have been introduced as a mystery to begin with; as it stands, it was just poor (or no) planning.

d) Too god damn long. The movie has a climax involving Rey going to Snoke's ship, fights taking place there, and her escaping after Kylo becomes the new Supreme Leader. Then the movie has another climax on the salt planet, because let's drag this out! This has to be the first Star Wars movie where I was just waiting to be over.

Overall, bad, bad movie. I wasn't a huge fan of the Force Awakens but it was a wholesome movie that held its own. This really didn't. There are a lot of other things that didn't sit right with me, but they are nitpicky or subjective. The only thing I liked was Kylo Ren, he was sympathetic throughout the movie and had way more of a story arc than any other character. I guess I also liked Snoke's bodyguards, they were kinda cool, each being distinct, and the fight scene with them was pretty good, I wish it was longer.

[JerakoKayne]

It's a story about the passage of generations. The new is moving forward. I think much is political, and definitely nodding toward the Millenial: all the heroes are women, the Bad Guys are white men.

It deals with many things well. The tactics many of the Rebels/Resistance use simply don't make sense; they would have been better off having not done some of the things they did.

The neutrality, and "balance" of the Force are handled better than in the now non-canonical EU.

Rey doesn't need to be a Skywalker to be a hero; in the new generation they can be heroes on their own merit, not just on their bloodline.


All this said, I don't understand why Luke Skywalker dies.

[TLEILAXU]

Pretty good for a Star Wars movie. Decent humour, lots of contrived bullshit as usual but they made the characters more interesting than the idealized black white Mary Sues and evil villains that Star Wars fans want them to be.
Kylo Ren was fantastic. I liked the revelation of Rey's parents. They were nobody's who dumped her, the Force just chose her arbitrarily.

[Knee that Bends]

I enjoyed the movie, it did seem there was a lot of F*** you JJ Abrams moments though. Right away, Rian Johnson destroys the main rebel base of TFA, then destroys the helmet that was the forefront of marketing for Kylo, then said F*** off to Rey being anyone special, F*** Snoke, etc. Not a bad thing, just kinda funny. I hope JJ does the same in return with episode 9. Also, I agree 100% with madness, ROTS Obi vs Ani puts the Phantom Menace duel to shame. I enjoyed the back-to-back aspect of the Rey/Kylo scene though. Very interesting combat compared to the flourish-iness of the prequel fighting. It seems less based on the five forms of saber combat, and more mixed. Loved when Rey dropped and caught her saber, that was pretty dope. I do have to say that like every Star Wars, it continued to play by the rules, no huge twists (in my opinion). And I personally think Leia should've been on board the kamikaze ship instead. I know that they couldn't really fix that after Carrie's death, but that's a shame because it would've been a really good fitting ending for her. Although, then she wouldn't be there to see Luke projection and the dice, which was a tender moment. Also, why did Holdo not just tell Poe Dameron the plan, I feel like that would've made the whole situation way easier. And couldn't the First order just flank the rebels with Tie's? Or send back up to intercept them? Or send their own ships to surround them? Instead of just waiting for them to run out of fuel.... 

[themerchant]

I'm so out of touch with Star wars I don't even know what's happening.

I haven't seen the other light saber battles, but i did see the phantom menace and i really liked that fight at the end with Maul. Qui gon and Obi.

I haven't watched a Star-Trek film since Insurrection either.

[Wilshire]

Never been a huge star wars guy.
I was hoping for some plot and was disappointed. My fault, really, expecting that from an action movie.
I think I'll stop watching star wars the same way I've stopped watching super hero movies.

The movie itself was middling. Too long, bad pacing, too many fights and explosions that lead to scenes that should have been emotional just falling flat.
The the two jedi and two sith did a good job. Skywalker et al actually had some good moments discussion something that could have been deep, but its left extremely surface level and then buried under several battles too many that its difficult to really say what it was they were driving at.
As others above have mentioned, there's definitely some social commentary in there that I find more interesting than the movie.

I would think, since only the Light side has found a way to survive death, that every generation the sum total knowledge of the light side and the force would increase for the Jedi - even if there are fewer of them. Conversely, since every sith master ascends by murdering the previous one, there would be a hording of knowledge that would simply not get passed down. With this dichotomy, I'd honestly expect the dark side (which might be easier to get stronger, faster) to be so diminished at this point for lack of proper knowledge transfer, and the jedi to be so strong for their infinite life and teaching, for there to be no contest between them. The sith should be at a remarkable disadvantage.
I'm glad Rey wasn't a Skywalker. I don't think it makes sense in-universe for force powers to be heritable.
Some great moments throughout, but largely not a good movie.

Also, why did Holdo not just tell Poe Dameron the plan, I feel like that would've made the whole situation way easier. And couldn't the First order just flank the rebels with Tie's? Or send back up to intercept them? Or send their own ships to surround them? Instead of just waiting for them to run out of fuel.... 

Badly written plot.
Felt the same thing - no reason for them to keep their plan it a secret. Nor for Poe to not simply tell people wtf she was planning.

I was hoping the 'twist' would be that  Poe was working for Snook in some capacity and betraying them all.

Its embarrassing that the solution to "wow they are fast" was "lets wait several days for them to run out of fuel" instead of "well, we know where they're going - straight - lets do a light speed jump into their path, aboutface, and attack. Oh, and lets scan known-space for any planets just in case"...Yeah, they could have done literally anything else.

Again, if Poe was an inside man, it makes more sense that they didn't want to kill her ... Kind of, ok only just barely, but at least it provides some excuse.

As for the kamikaze - stupid. Again, bad plot. If a ship of a certain size can light-speed-jump through an armada filled with literally dozens of ships bigger than itself, not to mention a ship hundreds of times larger, and destroy the whole thing ... why haven't they been doing that? Math checks out - make light speed ship, auto-pilot, blow up entire armada. Could have an xwing do it instead of the mothership, but whatever.

The series in general seems famous for deus ex machina. Almost nothing happens that isn't explicitly a contrived plot device. I, for one, am sick of utility droids hacking into enemy military tech and/or repairing literally anything with a blowtorch.

Luckily the best parts of the movie were the parts revolving around the force and the sith/jedi, which, tbh, is the only reason I showed up, so at least there's that. The fake-fight was great.

[Redeagl]

Never been a huge star wars guy.
I was hoping for some plot and was disappointed. My fault, really, expecting that from an action movie.
I think I'll stop watching star wars the same way I've stopped watching super hero movies.

The movie itself was middling. Too long, bad pacing, too many fights and explosions that lead to scenes that should have been emotional just falling flat.
The the two jedi and two sith did a good job. Skywalker et al actually had some good moments discussion something that could have been deep, but its left extremely surface level and then buried under several battles too many that its difficult to really say what it was they were driving at.
As others above have mentioned, there's definitely some social commentary in there that I find more interesting than the movie.

I would think, since only the Light side has found a way to survive death, that every generation the sum total knowledge of the light side and the force would increase for the Jedi - even if there are fewer of them. Conversely, since every sith master ascends by murdering the previous one, there would be a hording of knowledge that would simply not get passed down. With this dichotomy, I'd honestly expect the dark side (which might be easier to get stronger, faster) to be so diminished at this point for lack of proper knowledge transfer, and the jedi to be so strong for their infinite life and teaching, for there to be no contest between them. The sith should be at a remarkable disadvantage.
I'm glad Rey wasn't a Skywalker. I don't think it makes sense in-universe for force powers to be heritable.
Some great moments throughout, but largely not a good movie.

Also, why did Holdo not just tell Poe Dameron the plan, I feel like that would've made the whole situation way easier. And couldn't the First order just flank the rebels with Tie's? Or send back up to intercept them? Or send their own ships to surround them? Instead of just waiting for them to run out of fuel.... 

Badly written plot.
Felt the same thing - no reason for them to keep their plan it a secret. Nor for Poe to not simply tell people wtf she was planning.

I was hoping the 'twist' would be that  Poe was working for Snook in some capacity and betraying them all.

Its embarrassing that the solution to "wow they are fast" was "lets wait several days for them to run out of fuel" instead of "well, we know where they're going - straight - lets do a light speed jump into their path, aboutface, and attack. Oh, and lets scan known-space for any planets just in case"...Yeah, they could have done literally anything else.

Again, if Poe was an inside man, it makes more sense that they didn't want to kill her ... Kind of, ok only just barely, but at least it provides some excuse.

As for the kamikaze - stupid. Again, bad plot. If a ship of a certain size can light-speed-jump through an armada filled with literally dozens of ships bigger than itself, not to mention a ship hundreds of times larger, and destroy the whole thing ... why haven't they been doing that? Math checks out - make light speed ship, auto-pilot, blow up entire armada. Could have an xwing do it instead of the mothership, but whatever.

The series in general seems famous for deus ex machina. Almost nothing happens that isn't explicitly a contrived plot device. I, for one, am sick of utility droids hacking into enemy military tech and/or repairing literally anything with a blowtorch.

Luckily the best parts of the movie were the parts revolving around the force and the sith/jedi, which, tbh, is the only reason I showed up, so at least there's that. The fake-fight was great.

To be fair, it's supposed to be a children/young adult movie. So a deep plot is not something you should expect . I personally don't like SW too, btw.

[Wilshire]

To be fair, it's supposed to be a children/young adult movie. So a deep plot is not something you should expect . I personally don't like SW too, btw.

Yeah I know. First thing I said was that it was my fault lol.
If I went in expecting brightly colored garbage I probably would have been pleasantly surprised.

[TLEILAXU]

To be fair, it's supposed to be a children/young adult movie. So a deep plot is not something you should expect . I personally don't like SW too, btw.

Yeah I know. First thing I said was that it was my fault lol.
If I went in expecting brightly colored garbage I probably would have been pleasantly surprised.

Wait, are you saying you don't expect brightly colored garbage when watching ANY Star Wars movie?

[Wilshire]

To be fair, it's supposed to be a children/young adult movie. So a deep plot is not something you should expect . I personally don't like SW too, btw.

Yeah I know. First thing I said was that it was my fault lol.
If I went in expecting brightly colored garbage I probably would have been pleasantly surprised.

Wait, are you saying you don't expect brightly colored garbage when watching ANY Star Wars movie?

IS IT SO WRONG TO HOPE!

[Redeagl]

To be fair, it's supposed to be a children/young adult movie. So a deep plot is not something you should expect . I personally don't like SW too, btw.

Yeah I know. First thing I said was that it was my fault lol.
If I went in expecting brightly colored garbage I probably would have been pleasantly surprised.

Wait, are you saying you don't expect brightly colored garbage when watching ANY Star Wars movie?

IS IT SO WRONG TO HOPE!

Huh?  Aren't you the guy who was saying that TUC may not be ever released, back at April when it was all but out? 

[Wilshire]

 

[Francis Buck]

Honestly, the more I think about it the more disappointed I become.

I've loved Star Wars since childhood, was the perfect age when the prequels came out (was probably 8 or 9 when The Phantom Menace hit) in that I was able to enjoy them just for being SW movies and was not old enough to detect the flaws -- though I started feeling it by the time Revenge of the Sith came out. Regardless, this series looms larger in my life/memory than perhaps any other popular media, in terms of nostalgia and so forth. And there are certain things even from the prequels (Duel of the Fates) that to this day can give me goosebumps like nothing else. So yeah, I'm a pretty big fan, if perhaps not quite a "fanboy" or whatever.

When news that a new trilogy with the old cast was being made, it was borderline tear-inducing. As was the first teaser for TFA. For whatever reason, I'd just assumed that it would never happen and that I'd never see Luke Skywalker played by Mark Hamil on the big screen again. When TFA I came out I went in with measured hype, having been through enough of such experiences to be keep my expectations in check. Somewhat to my surprise, TFA exceeded my expectations -- it wasn't a perfect movie by any means, and it definitely stuck a bit too close to the ANH formula, but it otherwise succeeded handsomely in what is was trying to achieve. It actually FELT like a Star Wars movie, I liked all the new cast members, and Kylo Ren in particular was already the most nuanced villain in a Star Wars movie thus far. I went out of the theater genuinely satsifed and very excited to see where things would go from here. That was only amplifie when I learned that Rian Johnson, literally one of my favorite directors, was announced to do TLJ. Beforehand, were you to ask me who I'd like to direct it, I'd probably have said RJ. It was a dream come true, so I thought...

In contrast to how I felt walking out of TFA, or I walked out of TLJ wondering what exactly I'd just seen. I knew that I wasn't feeling it, but it was a long movie with a lot of scenes and I was still (and still am) absorbing it. But later that night as I kept thinking about it, I realized that I actually don't really even care that much about the next movie. I'll certainly see it, and I'd love to be surprised by how it turns out, but TLJ in my opinion did more damage to the series than any of the prequels (though I would not say that this was a worse movie than them).

There are many issues I have with the film, almost all of them regaring character development and the incoherence of the plot, as well some of the "expansions" to the lore and worldbuilding, but honestly it all comes down to Luke and Rey. I'm utterly baffled at the decisions made to the depiction of Luke -- I mean, I think I get what the premise was for the character at his stage, but the execution of it was so sloppy and off-putting that it ruins what potential was there, which is actually the case for almost everything about the movie. I think the film is brimming with great ideas, yet almost none of them hit the mark. The only characters I felt were actually well done with a coherent arc and journery are Poe, Leia, and to some extent Kylo, who remains IMO the most compelling new element of the entire trilogy. Furthermore, there's such a palpable sense of dissonance between where TFA left off, and where this movie decided to go, that it gives the impression that there is not, in fact, any sort of game plan for the series at all (which to my knowledge is not actually the case).

My biggest issue aside from Luke's depiction and characterization is that this film BARELY progressed the characters past where they were in TFA. Finn for example, who was probably the second most compelling character in TFA for me, had almost no meaningful development whatsoever. It's almost like you could learn everything you need to know from the opening text crawl of the next movie without feeling lost at all.

I do agree with what many have said, which is that it seems like the movie was preoccupied with going in unexpected directions for the series (a sentinment I'm 100% on board with, by the way) that it forgot to make sure those directions led to satisfying conclusions, nor even produce a competent film in general. It feels like a collection of wasted oppurtunities and good ideas that are not properly executed.

I'm actually more excited for whatever Rian Johson's other SW trilogy is going to be (assuming he still gets the job) than I am for the next film. I think that if the trilogy is fully separated from the main series (perferably by being something akin to KotoR, set in the ancient history of the SW universe), then they could be great. I already know RJ is an excellent director and writer, and TLJ is the only movie of his I don't love, so I still have hopes for getting good stories in the SW universe, even if I'm mildly heartbroken about this installment.

[themerchant]

"I've loved Star Wars since childhood, was the perfect age when the prequels came out (was probably 8 or 9 when "

This sentence just made me feel really old , literally stopped me in my tracks when reading your post. I think it was cause i had anticipated you were going to say the original ones and i was getting ready to agree and be like me too!