[What Came Before]

Kellhus does make mention that Moe was exiled. So why he was exiled is the real question.

I’m amazed he was exiled.
When you consider they killed there brothers who Moe contacted via dreams.

I've so much said the same thing I mistook this for one of my own posts (and was squinting for an edit button for my grammer mistake!)!!

[What Came Before]

Where is it stated that the Dunyain were based in Sauglish?

[What Came Before]

I think that's a 3 seas forum revelation, Bakker described them as an ecstatic (or was it Ascetic?) cult based in Sauglish.

[What Came Before]

(click to show/hide)

The inscription on the mapcase was "Doom, should you find me broken."

Yeah, I agree, lockesnow, pretty sure that was an old Three-Seas revelation. harrol used to be a mod there and, perhaps, remembers better.

Blackstone does bring up a great point that Kellhus didn't know what Sranc were before encountering Leweth and his dog runs.

[What Came Before]

I dunno, Dunyain life could be so compartmentalised.

How many of us eat beef?

How many of us have slaughtered a cow?

It's not hard to be walled off.

[Triskele]

I'd love to be proven wrong on this one, but I have a feeling we're not going to get more of the story.  I tend to believe Kellhus' description to Moe about surviving the Steppe with Swazond which forces him to avoid the Nansur and thus heads toward Kian. 

And the text is pretty clear that Moe did go through the Steppe as a wandering slave at first via Nayu's POV. 

[locke]

One thing about the broken map case.  If it were broken for 2000 years  the map probably woulf have dissolved to the elements.  If it were broken for 20 years it ought to be okay.

[Wilshire]

I agree with Triskele, and thats a good point locke. Though, I imagine there are not a lot of elements in a big cave, though the dragon is presumably rather warm, which would likely make things humid, which tends to be bad for paper.

[Triskele]

Isn't it also possible that the map case just got cracked open during the showdown between Akka, Cleric, and Wutteat?

[Wilshire]

I'm sure everything got cracked or bent at some point. Yes it could have just been a product of the fight, and the quote just a red herring.

[Gaston de Foix]

This is a speculation that I have raised before.

So many apparent coincidences suggest that its either all a part of some ancient plan of the dunyain founders that Kellhus is ignorant of, or the Whore or the solitary god manipulating fate on a massive scale.

If we take the interpretation of the white luck as a manipulation of causality, could we interpret the dunyain quest as one to obtain mastery of the power of the gods?  Could the no-god itself be important to the dunyain objectives?

This. I assumed it was a divine agency such Anagke. Do we have any basis to believe the Solitary God exists?. Cishaurim Moenghus suggests Fanimry (and the Solitary God) is just a myth....

[Madness]

Meppa believes that the Solitary God exists and, though it is probably a largely theoretical being to the Cishaurim (unless they can still commune with the God), Psatma seems to treat Meppa as if his vision is valid.

But I'm pretty big on Anagke being a major playor.

[Wilshire]

I think there is more truth to the Solitary God than you might think. I think it is probably true that there was once a Solitary God that somehow split into the Hundred. Maybe the SG doesn't exist as it once did, but I think it is still around somewhere. More and more I feel like no one knows the real truth in Earwa, but that it lies somewhere in the gray area between the opposing views of the world that we receive from each character.
So, in this case, it isn't that the SG does or does not exist, which is the question we are given in the book, but rather he used too exist and yet somehow still does, which is combination of what the nonmen, inrithi, and fanim have all told us.

But thats just me going mad . Maybe someone else can provide a more sober answer.

[mrganondorf]

This is a speculation that I have raised before.
There are other points that I feel may be relevant.

Did the dunyain refugees discover Ishual by blind luck?  Where else would they have been headed in the ruined north under shadow of Golgotteroth?
It's possible that the unnamed old man who led them knew Seswatha, perhaps it even was Seswatha.
More likely than them finding the map at Sauglish and then just leaving it there.  (Although  Kellhus could have recently planted it there for Akka, I guess.)

When the Dunyain discover the last scion of the Anasurimbor, it is described as a fortuitous correspondence of cause.  What is the correspondence between the objectives of the Consult's greatest latter-day opponents and the dunyain's quest for the transcendent self moving soul? 
It doesn't seem like an appropriate way to exclaim that they found some excellent genetic stock anyway.

And then Moeghus leaves Ishual and enters the three seas in accordance with an ancient prophecy that only Seswatha and his gnostic heirs have perpetuated for reasons that seem extremely untenable.  Divine or engineered coincidence?

So many apparent coincidences suggest that its either all a part of some ancient plan of the dunyain founders that Kellhus is ignorant of, or the Whore or the solitary god manipulating fate on a massive scale.

If we take the interpretation of the white luck as a manipulation of causality, could we interpret the dunyain quest as one to obtain mastery of the power of the gods?  Could the no-god itself be important to the dunyain objectives?

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

I'm starting to think that maybe I ought to doubt Kellhus' entire perception of Ishual as fabricated.  The Dunyain are quite capable of conditioning this guy from infancy.  What are the Dunyain really like?   No one knooooooooooowwwwsssss

[Jackehehe]

anyone hyped about learning the truth of moenghus departure form Ishual? I hope we ge answers in upcoming book!