Skin Spies and the Judging Eye

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themerchant

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« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2014, 08:46:35 pm »
The thing called Simas.

The scene in question reveals that Moenghus has broken his captive skin spies.  This is how they know there is a magic using skin-spy within the Mandate that must be removed before they go to meet Kellhus.
Maithanet explains that the thing called Simas is an unpredicted, un-reproducible anomaly based on the same source of information - captured directly from the Consult.  I feel like its probably legit in regard to further speculation.  .   

I think Moe ensouled it and sent Maitha to "expose" it so Maitha and the Mandate would arrive at the same time, also gives Maitha instant kudos with the mandate. The only person who said it was a consult abberation was Maitha himself. Pretty handy he has something that seems to instantly remove any misgivings about the shriah being here. After all everyone though the skin spies were from the Cish, as that was the enemy they knew. The mandate think consult, cause that's the enemy they know.

Cüréthañ

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« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2014, 06:12:42 am »
Well, I don't necessarily agree with that turn of events, but I do think it's possible that Meppa is that same skin spy - just reprogrammed.

He's described with nut brown skin, and the Kian are fair iirc.  Funny how he wears a magical blindfold too.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 06:17:39 am by Cüréthañ »
Retracing his bloody footprints, the Wizard limped on.

mrganondorf

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« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2014, 10:34:06 pm »
@FB - an ensouled, sorcerous ursranc would just be cool as fuck! 

man, i wonder what the dunyain could do breeding sranc for a couple of centuries

The Sharmat

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« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2014, 12:14:03 am »
I think you'll need more than selective breeding to change Sranc. They seem to have changed remarkably little in the thousands of years they've existed considering their extremely fast rate of reproduction. Their genes are still true enough that the pheromone triggers or whatever the Consult agents use to command Sranc bands they take over mostly work. I imagine the Consult, being good engineers, has filled their genome with selfish genetic elements that prevent mutations from successfully infiltrating the genome and propagating, watering down the product. At least around key genes. Such things are possible and highly effective even against selection pressure, to the point that some selfish genetic elements that are highly detrimental to their host have spread any way in a number of insect species, driving them to complete extinction when they wound up having no males being born.

On Simas...I wonder when he was replaced? If it was all the way back when he was a student, then that means he touched Seswatha's heart and dreamed the dreams. I wonder what that would do to a Consult agent?

Although I suppose to a Skin-Spy, Seswatha's dreams might be pure ecstasy. Perfect masturbatory fantasies of death and destruction and obscenity.

Wilshire

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« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2014, 06:15:35 pm »
I doubt the Dreams would have much interest to the Consult, other than trying to manipulate them. They know better than anyone how the First Apocalypse went down. They wouldn't need to see it through the eyes of their enemies. Like you said though, the skin-spy probably rather enjoyed it, up until the death of the no-god. Might be too tough to reconcile that one.
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Cüréthañ

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« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2014, 01:22:17 am »
Doesn't Akka contact Simas through the Dreams?  That would suggest the skin spy has performed the grasping at some point.
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mrganondorf

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« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2014, 11:47:54 pm »
I can't remember where, but someone was talking about Simas being a skin-spy produced by Moenghus or edited by him.  I wonder if the skin-spy that killed Xerius was a Moe agent too?

The top of the jnanic chain seems to be: Nansur Emperor, Shriah, De facto ruler of High Ainon, and Kianen Padirajah.  All of these must be removed/dominated/allied with Kellhus in order for him to unify the 3 seas. 

By TTT, Kellhus has an ally in the Shriah, has killed the Padirajah and is pursuing the next one, has Eleazarus under his thumb, and only needs to remove Xerius. 

That the skin-spy is working for Moenghus--how in the world would it let itself be caught so easy!  It was just waiting to be discovered and then kill, kill, kill!

Lol - mundane sight, arcane sight, the judging eye - 3 sees

The Sharmat

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« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2014, 11:52:14 pm »
I just don't see how Moenghus would have learned the Tekne.

mrganondorf

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« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2014, 12:29:45 am »
I just don't see how Moenghus would have learned the Tekne.

reverse engineering?  he wouldn't have to know everything, just how to turn an agent.  maybe neuropuncture directly and also on other skin-spies to get them to cough up what they know about tekne.  the consult never considering this as a possibility, may have let slip a lot of knowledge in front of skin-spies.  this is something aurang fears in TTT when he calls the skin-spies to set the trap to kill akka

The Sharmat

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« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2014, 01:30:01 am »
Considering the Skin-Spies didn't even know what the Inverse Fire was I doubt they were given lectures on the fundaments of synthetic biology, since it's absolutely useless to them in their work.

He doesn't have the tools to reverse engineer anything, either. Earwa hasn't even invented the microscope. Moenghus would have to recapitulate something like 400 years of human scientific advancement, by himself, in less than 20, starting from nothing more than perhaps a very basic concept akin to Mendellian genetics.

mrganondorf

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« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2014, 09:23:14 pm »
Just speaking for myself, all of that stuff just goes into my suspension of disbelief!  Question is if Bakker is writing to the dumber reader like me???

The Sharmat

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« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2014, 07:10:21 pm »
That would certainly break mine, given how well crafted the universe has been so far.

Wilshire

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« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2014, 02:34:21 pm »
Magics cast on someone affect them the same if they can see the Onta or not. Whether is boiling flesh or or cants of compulsion, the effect is the same. I doubt receiving dreams is any different.

I think Simas may have gotten away with not grasping and not learning any of the gnostic cants/wards if he wasn't in place to too long. Its no likely that he had opportunities to actually practice the Gnosis. Also, he might have even used anagogic equivalents for minor tasks using the Cuniori tongue, for minor things that he had to do (like light candles or other such mundane tasks). A proper spy could get away with a lot and not be noticed.
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The Sharmat

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« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2014, 08:45:30 pm »
It's not like there's no one at Golgotterath that could have taught the-thing-called-Simas the Gnosis before they deployed him, though. They have Aurang, Aurax, Shauriatas and the entire surviving Mangaecca school, and a wide variety of Nonmen Quya.

Wilshire

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« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2014, 02:22:59 pm »
Totally forgot about that. I often forget that the Mandate are not the only ones left in the Three Seas that know the gnosis. No grasping needed.
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