[mrganondorf]

Rereading and came upon this bit just as the holy war leaves the desert:

Two hundred thousand corpses marked the Holy War's march from the oasis of Subis to the frontier of Enathpaneah.  Two hundred thousand dead, beat into black leather by the sun.

For generations the Khirgwi would call their route saka'ilrait, "the Trail of Skulls."

From chapter 19, page 412 in US paperback, near the beginning of the chapter, bold added.

Perhaps a hint that the world lives on past whatever happens at the end of TUC?  Generations means babies!  Maybe just the Khirgwi survive. 

[Wilshire]

Generations means a minimum of 2. Roughly speaking, a generation is 20 years, meaning the world must only live for about 40.

Aspect-Emperor spoilers:

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AE starts out 20+ years after the day you references. Could be that the no-god/inchoroi takes another 20ish years to accomplish whatever it is they are doing. The world could die around the conclusion of TUC without there being internal inconsistency

[mrganondorf]

It seemed like more in the text!  Had the feeling of the story trailing off into indeterminate future. 

Khirgwi become the new FREMEN!!!

[mrganondorf]

A thread with a similar premise is in The Judging Eye section:

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http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=417.0

begins with this:

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Reading this book for the third time, and stumbled across a sleeping T-Rex...  Did, did, did he really just accidentally give away the outcome of the Great Ordeal?!     Or am I hallucinating? 

USA First Edition 2009, Hardcover, Page 163-164:

"... an endless train of supplies wound in front of the southern horizon, bearing arms, wares, rations, and more rations...  Vast herds of sheep and cattle, bred solely to accompany the march, were also beaten across the horizon, so many that some Men of the Ordeal began calling themselves ka Koumiroi, or the Herdsmen -- a name that would later become holy."

If the Great Ordeal fails, there would be no one left alive in the world to talk about it, to make it "later become holy" (similar to how the word "Veteran" became holy in the aftermath of the Holy War).  This must mean the Ordeal will eventually succeed, somehow, in preventing the rise of No-God for the second time.

Or am I crazy?!

[Wilshire]

Yes, I vaguely recall shooting down that topic too lol. Headshots all around.

[mrganondorf]

Yes, I vaguely recall shooting down that topic too lol. Headshots all around.

Yeah, it's flimsy.  I need to put together a checklist of TUC predictions to see which ones manifest and which ones were decoys.

[mrganondorf]

Another piece of evidence from WLW?

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"His [Carindusu] was the name that would be immortalized for infamy.  His was the name his kin would strike from their ancestor lists."  WLW p. 490 US edition, Ch. 13

[Wilshire]

Khirgwi become the new FREMEN!!!

Missed this before. Yes!

Another piece of evidence from WLW?

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"His [Carindusu] was the name that would be immortalized for infamy.  His was the name his kin would strike from their ancestor lists."  WLW p. 490 US edition, Ch. 13

Lol you won't let it go. Alright Mr. Optimism I'll give you that one

Also, why are we discussing this on the WP forum? So many spoilers:

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Recall that the world's population must be at/around 144k. Even if the Consult win, the word will go on, potentially forever, in a perversion of the classic biblical heaven-on-earth for X thousand years scenario.
Since TSTSNBN exists, I assume we will get another time skip plus the time that series unfolds in. This gives us plenty of time to work with. The world will live on, in some form or another, through to the end of TUC and beyond. The future tense prediction of the text are likely an indication of this (even though I've been arguing against that for ages now. I mostly just like to be a contrarian, though I also like to encourage people to find hard evidence through my contrarianism. It all works out in the end I believe).

[Zadok]

Another piece of evidence from WLW?

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"His [Carindusu] was the name that would be immortalized for infamy.  His was the name his kin would strike from their ancestor lists."  WLW p. 490 US edition, Ch. 13

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I always read that part as an inner monologue/reason for him going crazy, especially since afterwards he doesn't really seem to be blamed for the disaster, and Saccarees is the one "shunned" for killing him.

[mrganondorf]

@ Zadok - I hadn't considered that.  Bakker does blur the lines with pov; I'm going to have to reread that part.

@ Wilshire - I got called an optimist!  I need to tell my wife, this could be a first!  Maybe reading Bakker is having a reverse effect on my psyche?

[The Sharmat]

Believing that the world will be in some condition superior to all life but 144,000 people being systematically killed, and the rest kept as chattel for the pleasure of rape aliens that worship Emptiness and Meaninglessness incarnate, is not exactly the soul of optimism.

[Wilshire]

Ah, but is those 144k are then forever in the garden of eden, heaven, etc etc, then optimistic it is. Who cares about the means?

Wow, what an ending, the Inchoroi win, and 4000 years of Earwa atrocities led to heaven.

[Cüréthañ]

Yeah, the heaven created by the Unholy Consult isn't really going to align with people sitting on clouds and playing harps, is it?

Even the idea of globby oyster-fish things with bundles of reeds for mouths  (or whatever they originally looked like) making bag-pipe noises and frolicking happily in Eden seems pretty gross.

[mrganondorf]

For my part, I thought the text might be hinting that the world lives on simply and not necessarily confined to the 144k scenario hence optimism.  But Sharmat and Curethan you are right, the world could go on living and yet be no better off than a skin spy in a cage!