What would you like to ask Bakker?

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locke

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« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2015, 10:19:04 pm »
"Am I going in circles, or dare I hope I am on a spiral?"

locke

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« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2015, 07:00:13 pm »
Who were Celmomas' mother and father?

Francis Buck

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« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2015, 07:34:01 pm »
Who is your daddy and what does he do?

Wilshire

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« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2015, 09:00:38 pm »
One of the other conditions of possibility.

locke

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« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2015, 09:45:46 pm »
It's naht ah tumor!

locke

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« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2015, 10:33:24 pm »
Did achamian and inrau have a sexual relationship?

Did achamian and proyas have a sexual relationship?

Francis Buck

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« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2015, 01:46:16 am »
Did achamian and inrau have a sexual relationship?

Did achamian and proyas have a sexual relationship?

I'd actually like some more clarity on this as well.

SilentRoamer

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« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2015, 08:43:00 pm »
I think this may have been inspired my post on one of the Westerosi threads about Akka and Proyas having an inappropriate relationship - sexual or not.

Wilshire

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« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2015, 08:46:56 pm »
Its not an uncommon interpretation. A friend of mine asked me this question, and she never was on any forum. My answer, was no, but I can see where you might get that from i guess.
One of the other conditions of possibility.

Walter

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« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2015, 08:50:46 pm »
How does the Swayali sisterhood compare, in terms of size, to the other schools?

Hirtius/Pansa

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« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2015, 10:21:56 pm »
It'd be neat to have the numerical capacity of all the schools in the Great Ordeal stated.

I think Walter, during the First Battle of the Horde, Serwa sends out 200 witches to be on the frontlines with the men of the Middle-North and then keeps 50 of her elite witches in reserve.  So the Swayal Sisterhood is ~250 people, which is a massive amount of Gnostic firepower.  If during the First Holy War the Scarlet Spires had only 120 sorcerers of rank at their disposal, the Swayal are then much more powerful than any anagogic or even the Mandate school.

Wilshire

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« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2015, 12:29:10 am »
On schools and their numbers:
http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=791.0

This might not be the only topic here that has these numbers and quotes, but its the only one I remember.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2015, 03:55:46 am by Wilshire »
One of the other conditions of possibility.

EkyannusIII

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« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2015, 08:20:22 pm »
I don't think Achamian touched either Inrau or Proyas (esp. not the later, the King's son is not some random boy you can buttfuck and then forget about).  Our perception that this was being insinuated was a residue from the rather shocking bluntness with which the Bardic Priest's rape of Ganrelka (?) was treated in the prologue and was no doubt aided by the rough similarity between the BP and Akka (in that neither is a physical combatant and both make their way in the world through lore of one or another sort).
What is reason, but the blindness of the soul?

R. SCOTT RAP3ZT TERRIBLEZ LOLZ.

if Kellhus was thinking all of this, he's going to freak out when he get's back and Kelmomas is all "i lieks to eatum peeples da"

the whole thing is orchestrated by Kellhus who is wearing a Bashrag as if it were a suit

locke

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« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2015, 11:10:43 pm »
No, it's because the appendix said he had a male lover, his disproportionate reaction to inraus death, the disproportionate reaction of house nersei of breaking a centuries long contract with the mandate because of the "official" explanation of a teacher uttering a minor blasphemy  (especially when the teachers very existence is 1000 times more blasphemous), and because akkas rivals directly accuse him of it.  And given the immensity of their accusation it is fascinating it is the only slight akka suffers in five books that he does not ruminate and brood on for multiple paragraphs, his only thought is basically shock that they knew the best way to wound him.

It is all suspicious at the least. 

EkyannusIII

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« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2015, 01:25:34 am »
No, it's because the appendix said he had a male lover,

The appendix was published two books after Inrau and Proyas first come to our attention and was referring to his room mate (Sancla) when Akka was in school.  No one who thinks Akka diddled boys formed that suspicion only after finishing TTT.


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his disproportionate reaction to inraus death,

You're projecting into the event.  Akka loves Inrau because he sees in Inrau the innocence and cleanliness of heart that he knows he has lost: 

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Inrau . . . For Achamian, to think this name was to know peace for a fleeting instant. He had known so little peace in his life. And now he was forced to throw that peace onto the scales with terror. He must sacrifice Inrau in order to answer these questions.

Inrau had been a coltish adolescent when he’d first come to Achamian, a boy still blinking in the daybreak of manhood. Though there had been nothing extraordinary about his appearance or his intellect, Achamian had immediately recognized something different about him—a memory, perhaps, of the first student he’d loved, Nersei Proyas. But where Proyas had grown proud, overfed on the knowledge that he would someday be King, Inrau had remained . . . Inrau.

Teachers found many self-serving reasons to love their students. More than anything, they loved them simply because they listened. But Achamian had not loved Inrau as a student. Inrau, he’d realized, was good. Not good in the jaded way of the Mandate, who trafficked in the mire as did all other men. No. The good he saw in Inrau had nothing to do with kind acts or praiseworthy purposes; it was something innate. Inrau harboured no secrets, no shadowy need to conceal faults or to write himself large in the estimation of other men. He was open in the way of children and fools, and he possessed the same blessed naïveté, an innocence that smacked of wisdom rather than ignorance.

Innocence. If there was anything Achamian had forgotten, it was innocence.

Remember how much self-loathing he has while he is in Sumna and hears the pilgrims going on about how sorcerors are a cancer? He is more than a bit tempted to agree.

If that's not enough to convince you that this wasn't about Akka having mad lust for boy anus, consider that the self-characterization implied in the above reminiscences, i.e. that Akka is a teacher and sees himself as such above all else, is also exactly how Kellhus reads Akka's character and manipulates him into giving up the Gnosis.  There is no trace of Kellhus seeing anything erotic in Akka's relations with himself, Proyas, or anyone but Esmi.

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the disproportionate reaction of house nersei of breaking a centuries long contract with the mandate because of the "official" explanation of a teacher uttering a minor blasphemy  (especially when the teachers very existence is 1000 times more blasphemous),

That could be a pretext for anything, and is itself disproportionate with the alleged crime.  To reiterate, you don't buttfuck the king's son and then just walk away, especially when the King and all of his nobles, including the older brother of the boy you touched (Proyas is the king's second son, and only became heir apparent on his older brother Tirrumas' death in 4100) all have Chorae.  We saw clearly that sorcerors could be trapped and tortured Akka when he went to the Sareotic Library, there is no reason to believe he would be any less easy to bring to heel when every caste-noble in Conriya with a Chorae is after him for rape.

It is worth noting that Akka's successor (Charamemas) was a Shrial priest and famed scriptural commentator; that fits neatly with the official stated reason for Akka's dismissal: unorthodoxy.

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and because akkas rivals directly accuse him of it.

The most trustworthy of voices? There is no reason to believe that their accusations were chosen for truth, as opposed to usefulness to the accuser.  This can be seen even in the real world: want to ruin a teacher, accuse him of pedophilia.  Often merely sowing doubt is enough.  A man's enemies are not a reliable source for information about his character.

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And given the immensity of their accusation it is fascinating it is the only slight akka suffers in five books that he does not ruminate and brood on for multiple paragraphs, his only thought is basically shock that they knew the best way to wound him.

He's shocked that they know what he loves most: teaching.  Akka's enemies took the accusation of pederasty as a potent way of slurring his character; Akka took it to heart because his character as a teacher means something deep to him, and he is surprised that they knew this (if they did, to me it looks like they just used whatever slur seemed most dangerous given his situation and accidentally hit a nerve in terms of his real personality).

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It is all suspicious at the least. 

It is suspicious, and Bakker may intend for us to think it that way, even if he just wants to play a game and Akka isn't really a boy-toucher.  But there is nothing approaching a slam-dunk in the text that would prove this.  I think Bakker is teasing us.
What is reason, but the blindness of the soul?

R. SCOTT RAP3ZT TERRIBLEZ LOLZ.

if Kellhus was thinking all of this, he's going to freak out when he get's back and Kelmomas is all "i lieks to eatum peeples da"

the whole thing is orchestrated by Kellhus who is wearing a Bashrag as if it were a suit