PDF VERSION! (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7af3IhBKbgrTmp5d3M3bXRja1U)
Siol is located is the Northern Great Kayarsus, north of the Sea of Cerish.
Nihrimsul is located at the south-eastern tip of the Yimaleti Mountains. Scott also said this spur of the mountains was the eastern border of Aorsi.
You know where Viri, Ishoriol and Cil-Aujas are, of course.
Illiseru was located in the Betmulla Mountains. He wouldn't say if this was the same mansion as the one Moenghus was chilling in, but I got the impression it wasn't. Illiseru is really big, that one wasn't.
The other three names are not finalised and will probably change: Curunq in the Araxes Mountains, Cil-Mihmul in the Hinayati Mountains and Incissal, located near modern-day Domyot. Apparently Incissal (or whatever it ends up being called) was captured by men and is actually inhabited by the modern people of Zeum, the only such Nonman mansion to be repurposed. I didn't put these in the article as I wanted it to be as close to canon as possible.
That also confirms - since the one near Atrithau isn't on the list - that there lots of other "lesser" mansions knocking around.
Also, on population levels: tens of thousands of Nonmen were killed in Viri (not counted as one of the most populous mansions) alone during the Arkfall. The populations of the mansions in their heyday must have been absolutely immense.
Interesting also that one of the "unnamed Mansions" was so close to Cil-Aujas and at first, I thought about the source for Chanv. It is too far East, because it is rumored to come from the headwaters of the River Sayut. However, the idea that it was an adjunct mansion they are mining for Chanv is definitely possible.
Interesting stuff for sure.
H, one does not mine for Chanv, you simply break off a piece of a salted sorcerer. Come on now, only dead people get you high on Earwa.
Oh, I like that! I didn't see where you was going with it, nice!
Apparently Incissal (or whatever it ends up being called) was captured by men and is actually inhabited by the modern people of Zeum, the only such Nonman mansion to be repurposed. I didn't put these in the article as I wanted it to be as close to canon as possible.
Did you read my quoted comments by Wertzone at Westeros above, H?QuoteApparently Incissal (or whatever it ends up being called) was captured by men and is actually inhabited by the modern people of Zeum, the only such Nonman mansion to be repurposed. I didn't put these in the article as I wanted it to be as close to canon as possible.
This is titled Part I and ends seguing to the "Age of Men in Eanna." Bets on Part II elucidating the Inchoroi interaction with the Halaroi of Eanna in classic, nonchalant bomb-dropping Bakker style?
I wouldn't be surprised given he dropped the Tusk bomb on Pat's blog, might as well unveil the rest about the Breaking of the Gates on Wert's. I kinda hope he won't though. I liked how the account of the Cuno-Inchoroi Wars came after TTT confirms that the Inchoroi are irrevocably damned aliens seeking to close off the outside. I feel like you gotta time these encyclopedia bits after they've been given some significance in the main story.
Very nice. Just to be clear, this is entirely written by Wert from previous books and TGO, right? Only Bakker gave him some info about the locations and names of the Mansions?
Who would consider coming here?Wert :P. The guy that's doing these posts ;).
Thats a genuine question, not me making a joke about no one would come here.
Wert usually posts on other forums (besides westeros) just to promote Bakker or his own blog. There is no need for him to do that here.Good point. We don't need any more Bakker advertisements around here.
But, you know, anything to make this place in particular seem legitimate.
Oh well.?
Oh well.?
These entries are definitely quite gripping. As well as being loaded with new information, for me at least. I really should re-read the TTT glossary.
Second entry was a bit more clunky, but I suppose that's a result of there being less of a clear arc as in Inchoroi vs Nonmen. Lots of Empires falling and growing in a few short paragraphs.
There wasn't much mention of the Sranc in Part II. Surely they had a not-insignificant impact on the growth and fall of these empires? Perhaps have unified the peoples of the north against a common threat.
I found it odd where the tribes ended up. I was wondering if they decided among themselves who would go where, but I suppose they split up hunting the Mansions and just settled the fertile lands near them. But how did they know where to find the mansions? Did they wander around searching for them? Unlikely, else they wouldn't have settled in such defined areas imo, plus the Nonmen could have hidden their mansions as they did Golgotterath. I'd say the Inchoroi told them where the mansions were... Perhaps Husyelt told Angeshrael, or, most likely, the Tusk told them were to go.
Whilst still a child, he was identified as one of the Few, those that carry the mark of sorcery.Not really a great definition. Should read "able to see Onta, the very essence of existence, and therefore able to use sorcery" or some such. "Carry the mark of sorcery" is probably not meant to be taken literally, but since those that wield sorcery literally do carry a mark, this descriptor is at best confusing, if not downright incorrect.
Wert doing good work. I like how he ended this one, the next should be a good recap of the books.
Is it just me or does the font change about halfway through? Rather jarring.
I may be imagining things but wasn't it mentioned somewhere that Sejenus was actually executed at Kyudea?
Somewhere - and honestly, I'm so out of practice with sourcing the material - it's suggested that Sejenus actually ascended from Kyudea, not Shimeh.
Ascension—The direct passage of Inri Sejenus to the Outside as described in “The Book of Days” in The Tractate. According to Inrithi tradition, Sejenus ascended from the Juterum, or the Sacred Heights, in Shimeh, though The Tractate seems to suggest that Kyudea and not Shimeh was the location. The First Temple was purportedly raised on the very location.
Part 6
(http://thewertzone.blogspot.co.uk/2017/05/a-history-of-earwa-part-6-unification.html)
Part 7 coming soon, covering the first three Aspect-Emperor books.
"That Kellhus's love for his children clouded the Thousandfold Thought...."If Kellhus left his children to die and is 100% ready to kill the rest anytime when he loved them, I wonder what would he had done if he hated them.....
There you go Wert, you get it! 🍻
"That Kellhus's love for his children clouded the Thousandfold Thought...."If Kellhus left his children to die and is 100% ready to kill the rest anytime when he loved them, I wonder what would he had done if he hated them.....
There you go Wert, you get it! 🍻
What child of Kellhus's that he brought to term, did he kill? Please enlighten me? You're letting your feeling get in the way of the facts Redeagl. In WLW, Maith presumes that Kellhus left his Empire to ruin, but that wasn't the case was it? I can keep going on, after you've answered those questions.Kellhus have been able to predict and counter the actions of The Consult yet can't see what an 8 year old kid would do? well that is impossible.So, he left Theliopa,Samrmas and Inrilatas to die, knowing their fates for the most part. In his first return to Momemn in TJE, he told Esmi that he doesn't give a shit for his Samrnas' death.Then the Niom comes, where he sold Serwa and if you count him; Möenghus.He gave three year old Serwa to the Swayali because he knew that he needed another Dûnyain with the Metagnosis, if he let his love for his children cloud the TTT he certainly wouldn't have done that.We don't know for sure why he returned yet btw. He did tell Proyas in the beginning of TWLW that the Empire is going to fall and seemed like he didn't care.
Aye, a Master you are... A Master of Nothing."That Kellhus's love for his children clouded the Thousandfold Thought...."If Kellhus left his children to die and is 100% ready to kill the rest anytime when he loved them, I wonder what would he had done if he hated them.....
There you go Wert, you get it! 🍻
Redeagl, in two months you will come to America and bow down to me. Exult, "The Master of theories."..
What child of Kellhus's that he brought to term, did he kill? Please enlighten me? You're letting your feeling get in the way of the facts Redeagl. In WLW, Maith presumes that Kellhus left his Empire to ruin, but that wasn't the case was it? I can keep going on, after you've answered those questions.Kellhus have been able to predict and counter the actions of The Consult yet can't see what an 8 year old kid would do? well that is impossible.So, he left Theliopa,Samrmas and Inrilatas to die, knowing their fates for the most part. In his first return to Momemn in TJE, he told Esmi that he doesn't give a shit for his Samrnas' death.Then the Niom comes, where he sold Serwa and if you count him; Möenghus.He gave three year old Serwa to the Swayali because he knew that he needed another Dûnyain with the Metagnosis, if he let his love for his children cloud the TTT he certainly wouldn't have done that.We don't know for sure why he returned yet btw. He did tell Proyas in the beginning of TWLW that the Empire is going to fall and seemed like he didn't care.
Be pretty weird that Kellhus risked the end of humanity for his love of Esmenet when Akka was able to reason himself out of not doing it himself, during the first holy war.
Esme constantly wanted them to just run away but Akka couldn't cause the end of the world. 20 years later Kellhus is unable to resist his love and returns to momenn to save her.
I think he was returning anyway he had to finish the WLW stuff.
I really doubt Kellhus has risked anything.
Chances are everything is preordained, Kellhus can't really fail, so long as he listens to the Voice. And we have no indication he has done anything besides listen.
Aye, a Master you are... A Master of Nothing.
I really doubt Kellhus has risked anything.
Chances are everything is preordained, Kellhus can't really fail, so long as he listens to the Voice. And we have no indication he has done anything besides listen.
Neither do I. My point was that Maithenet, as a Dunyain was able to read the love Kellhus bears his children and family. He thinks this clouds his judgement. I do not.
I'm on the fence about that, because I fail to see love toward any of them really. Sure, it's stated by Maithenet, but where is it actually shown or demonstrated?
What love did he ever show for Theli, for example, considering what he allowed to happen to her in the end? And not only that, what he allowed Inri to do to her before that?
To even connect with that, is it love to allow Inri to be chained up like that? To live the sort of existence he had to? And to subject Esmenet to seeing her son like that?
And that is just two of the kids. What about Sammi? Little Kel? What love do we really see there? And so on, and so on. Are we to plausibly assume that Kellhus knew nothing of any of that? Or did he chose to not know?
Using them to their capabilities is indeed what he does with Serwa and Kayutas, possibly Moe, but the rest? That doesn't seem really what he is doing. Perhaps he did spare Inri out of love for Esmenet. But what he lets happen under his nose to Sammi and Theli is pretty inexcusable, especially when you consider he is the pinnacle of the Dunyain.
I don't simply mean how he let Theli die. That was probably out of his hands/in the hands of Momas and/or Yatwer. But to allow Inri to sexually abuse her? With Kellhus perceptual ability, there is absolutely no chance he didn't notice the profound effect it had on her and so would be able to figure out why it happened. That is not love, even if in some twisted way it had to happen. Theli was abused by both Kellhus and Inri, no matter how you slice it, and that is not love. Not any way I can possibly understand it.
Valid points. But, I will not back down from my stance that Kellhuss is driven by emotion/love. Even if it is not recognisable to us. I've given many, many examples at to why I believe this. I think Maithenet seeing the love Kellhus bears his children is another notch in that belt, is all.
For example, lets just look at why the Thought come about. To save humanity from the No-God and to destroy the Consult. This in itself is enough to conclude that they care for humanity. Its certainly not to save the Dunyain's mission. From, "His heart would crash to ruin" to coming back to save the Empire and Esme there is plenty of evidence that this is the case. Kellhus is more for the simple reason that he feels emotions, cares for humanity.
Valid points. But, I will not back down from my stance that Kellhuss is driven by emotion/love. Even if it is not recognisable to us. I've given many, many examples at to why I believe this. I think Maithenet seeing the love Kellhus bears his children is another notch in that belt, is all.
For example, lets just look at why the Thought come about. To save humanity from the No-God and to destroy the Consult. This in itself is enough to conclude that they care for humanity. Its certainly not to save the Dunyain's mission. From, "His heart would crash to ruin" to coming back to save the Empire and Esme there is plenty of evidence that this is the case. Kellhus is more for the simple reason that he feels emotions, cares for humanity.
Back to our usual same circular "argument." ;)
While post-TGO I don't think there can be any question of if emotion, i.e. feelings, are somehow involved, I certainly have doubts about their extent and the extent to which they are driving the plan or simply part of the plan.
You know we can do this for days though, so we'll just have to RaFO (if TUC actually even answers this question).
Unless I'm wrong. A more interesting question may be why does it matter to you/us if Kellhus "experiences" love? Does the answer to that effect the validation of his attempt to thwart the human extinction event?
Unless I'm wrong. A more interesting question may be why does it matter to you/us if Kellhus "experiences" love? Does the answer to that effect the validation of his attempt to thwart the human extinction event?
The question rises from asking, "what separates Kellhus from Moënghus?"
When Kellhus tells him, "I am more," what does that mean?
Does it really matter to me? Not particularly. All I ever really try to do to string together piece of a books in a way to explain what might be happening. I never really say something must be, rather I try to rate the probability of things based off how much textual evidence there is. If you ever really find me debating something, it is mostly just the relative probability of things.
It's rather irrelevant to me, in the long run, if Kellhus is doing things out of love, selfishness, or just for a ham sandwich.
- Theliopa totally was used regarding usefulness potentia by Kellhus, she's Esmenet's Hitchhiker's Guide to Earwa: one of my favorite quotes from TGO, badly paraphrasing, is when the away team Exalt-General returns to Momemn and it takes "nearly everyone there to answer his questions, absent Theli."
It is a really amazing and well-put together document, Wert.
I'm building list a couple pages long of bullet-point "quibbles" as I'll call them but I don't know if that's what you're looking for. Let me know, thanks.
- "In this room was located an object known only as the “Inverse Fire”. Every Cûnuroi who beheld this artifact was driven insane on the instant, proclaiming that the Inchoroi were right and all the people of the World were doomed to damnation" (p18)
- "The three Cunuroi" - every makes it sound like many, at least to mine eyes.
- "ordered the Qûya under Emilidis, the Artisan, to a glamour (known as the Barricades) about it to hide it away from the rest of the world and prevent entry" (p18).
- That the Glamour and Barricades are one and raise the same is apparently up to some debate – I’m of the opinion that they’re one and the same but I was a minority in the last conversation we had about it in Quorum here.
I don't know where you found this "One God" bit. Wasn't the whole relevation of Inri Sejenus that the Hundred Kunniat Gods were in fact aspects of the God-of-Gods?
For my money, though, I find it likely that during the Shamanic period (or pre-Kiunnat, pre-Tusk) humans simply attributed God-head to different aspects of their lives and eventually arrived at that nice round hundred number.
I'm intrigued by the theory that the Nonmen inadvertently created the Hundred (the whole "99 sons" thing from TGO) but we need more information on that.
And naught was known or unknown, and there was no hunger.
All was One in silence, and it was as Death.
Then the Word was spoken, and One became Many.
Doing was struck from the hip of Being.
And the Solitary God said, 'Let there be Deceit. Let there be Desire.'
- The Book of Fane
I'm intrigued by the theory that the Nonmen inadvertently created the Hundred (the whole "99 sons" thing from TGO) but we need more information on that.
I'm definitely of this camp as well. I keep thinking of the opening quote from the prologue of TGO, and can't think what it's related to, or how it ties in with the hundred (other than the obvious, literal manner).Quote from: FaneAnd naught was known or unknown, and there was no hunger.
All was One in silence, and it was as Death.
Then the Word was spoken, and One became Many.
Doing was struck from the hip of Being.
And the Solitary God said, 'Let there be Deceit. Let there be Desire.'
- The Book of Fane
Was the Word actually sorcery? Did the Quya somehow create the hundred? I guess the obvious thing would be that the One spoke the Word to create the many. But I can't help but feel the Nonmen are involved. I also think that it being the very first quote in the book gives it particular thematic weight.
By the way, Wert - love your history series. I shared it with a friend a few months back and she said she couldn't breathe while she was reading it :) Turned out she hadn't read the glossary closely enough and didn't know the Inchoroi arrived from space!
It's not Ajokli who's invisible, and no, the Nonmen didn't shatter God, God did.
This is some impressive work, and it came in quite handy as a more detailed "What Has Come Before" that doesn't take as long as a proper reread. :) (as I don't have the time to do one before reading TUC, it helped me remember some things that weren't as fresh in myy mind anymore)
Just one question, though, are you getting some of the dates for events and birth/death years directly from the TUC appendices? Because I don't recall, for instance, ever being given exact birth years for Achamian, Esmenet, Kellhus, and most of the Anasûrimbor children. Sorry if I'm being nitpicky, but I have an interest in timelines, and figuring out everyone's ages is kind of an obsessive thing of mine. I remember Achamian, Cnaïur, Esmenet, Serwë, etc. had their ages stated in the appendices for the first series, but it did span a few years (4109-4112, right?) so that wasn't exact.
This is some impressive work, and it came in quite handy as a more detailed "What Has Come Before" that doesn't take as long as a proper reread. :) (as I don't have the time to do one before reading TUC, it helped me remember some things that weren't as fresh in myy mind anymore)
Just one question, though, are you getting some of the dates for events and birth/death years directly from the TUC appendices? Because I don't recall, for instance, ever being given exact birth years for Achamian, Esmenet, Kellhus, and most of the Anasûrimbor children. Sorry if I'm being nitpicky, but I have an interest in timelines, and figuring out everyone's ages is kind of an obsessive thing of mine. I remember Achamian, Cnaïur, Esmenet, Serwë, etc. had their ages stated in the appendices for the first series, but it did span a few years (4109-4112, right?) so that wasn't exact.
I went with the best guesses from the Wiki, most of them based on logical extrapolation (i.e. Theliopa being born during Kellhus and Esmenet's sojourn in Nenciphon). When you realise Serwa is only 17 (at best) in TAE, it's a bit of a jarring moment :)
I went with the best guesses from the Wiki, most of them based on logical extrapolation (i.e. Theliopa being born during Kellhus and Esmenet's sojourn in Nenciphon). When you realise Serwa is only 17 (at best) in TAE, it's a bit of a jarring moment :)
True, however 17 in ancient times was different than it is now.
If Theliopa was supposed to be 16 in TJE, that's clearly gone out the window in TUC: she was born when Kellhus and Esment were sojourning in the White-Sun Palace in Nenciphon, which was in 4113. So she's 19 at the start of TJE and Serwa would logically be 1-2 years younger than her.
Bakker does have form for this kind of retcon. The Swayal Compact's HQ moves from being in Iothiah in TJE to the ruined mansion of Illisseru in TUC as well.
Bakker retcons all the time. Whole cities has moved :P . The world and the pieces that move within it are all very fluid, which is a source of minor frustration for me.
ThoughtsOfThelli, I wonder if this new PDF helps clarify some of your timeline woes.
That's amazing, again, Wert.Interesting you say that Madness, there seem to be some points of contention settled in this summary.
I have quibbles but this time around they aren't worth interrogating because I am very much among the minority regarding interpretations of TUC's end.
Thanks for your work.
Insofar as he confirms anything, yes. I'd say its at least as authoritative as the What Has Come Before sections in the books themselves.That's amazing, again, Wert.Interesting you say that Madness, there seem to be some points of contention settled in this summary.
I have quibbles but this time around they aren't worth interrogating because I am very much among the minority regarding interpretations of TUC's end.
Thanks for your work.
Is this confirmed as accurate by the man himself?!
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Interesting.. :DInsofar as he confirms anything, yes. I'd say its at least as authoritative as the What Has Come Before sections in the books themselves.That's amazing, again, Wert.Interesting you say that Madness, there seem to be some points of contention settled in this summary.
I have quibbles but this time around they aren't worth interrogating because I am very much among the minority regarding interpretations of TUC's end.
Thanks for your work.
Is this confirmed as accurate by the man himself?!
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