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Messages - Cosi

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16
The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO Spoilers] Whale Mothers
« on: July 24, 2016, 03:53:19 am »
But you are right that Kayutas seems to be the only "normal" one that is the most similar to Maithanet. I hope we'll have something from his perspective in TUC.

One thing to note is that unlike Moe, Maithanet, Kellhus, and Koringhus he is not of the few. I'm not completely convinced it means anything, but there's a mounting pile of evidence that pure/not-defective Dunyain (at least, of the Anasurimbor line) are all of the Few. Possibly a result of the Dunyain coming close to grasping the Absolute. Do we know if Inrilatas was one of the Few?

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The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO Spoilers] Overall thoughts on the book?
« on: July 23, 2016, 01:21:48 pm »
Momemn does seem out of place, particularly with Kellhus showing back up to put a bow on it, so to speak. There's still some interesting stuff there. Notably, we have yet to get an explanation for Fanayal saying that Meppa "does not know who he is", which is an interestingly similar sentiment to the No-God's "what do you see". Also, whatever Ciphrang!Malowebi is doing and Kelmomas's relation to the gods.

My WAG is that it serves a similar function to the skin spies in PON. The primary antagonists in that trilogy were the Fanim, the Cisharum, or Moe depending on who you asked. But the skin spies were there as a pointer to the greater threat on the horizon (the Consult and the Second Apocalypse). Similarly, Psatma and the White-Luck Warrior are the beginnings of the conflict between Kellhus and the gods, presumably to be dealt with in the final trilogy (either exclusively or in tandem with Second Apocalypse).

Personally, my biggest complaint (mitigated by Tekne-Nuke) is that the Consult seems to be following a pretty simplistic and, to be frank, boring strategy. There's only so much "they killed a lot  of Sranc, but there were even more Sranc, so the Sranc killed some of them, then they went back to marching" that a man can take. I personally don't think questions about how did Kellhus do/know/find X are as problematic. He's had twenty years with the Metagnosis, and I expect we'll get a lot of answers about what he's been up to in TUC.

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The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO Spoilers] Whale Mothers
« on: July 23, 2016, 01:02:17 pm »
Here's a question - why would whalemotherism emerge at all? I can't see why gigantism would be stimulated as an outcome by the conditions of Ishual, and I don't see why the Dunyain would want it, unless every Whale Mother was also meant to be an Octomom. Theories?

It's got to be related to the whole "the seed is too strong" deal. Esmenet could barely deal with bearing half-Dunyain children, and literally all of them were defective to some lesser or greater degree (except maybe Kayutas). To me, that implies that a strongly specialized host is needed to carry Dunyain children. One flaw in this is the existence of Maithanet. He had no obvious flaws (he was even of the few), and he was the son of a random Fanim woman as far as we know. I also remember (though my memory is somewhat spotty) him saying there were only a few failures, although that may be counting only live non-mutant births.

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The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO Spoilers] The Gods
« on: July 21, 2016, 06:22:39 pm »
Isn't there confirmation that the Tusk was introduced by the Consult as a tool to kill the Nonmen?

I don't know. There's a reference in one of the Sorweel chapters in TGO to a "tutelage of the Vile", but my understanding of that was that it was the Consult teaching men Anagogic Sorcery. I do believe that the Tusk (and the Later Prophet's injunction to kill sorcerers) were Consult/Inchoroi tools, but I don't think that's been established.

To me, I am very doubtful that the Solitary God exists.  More to the point though, I do not believe that the Solitary God exerts any influence in Earwa.  The SOlitary God's "power" allegedly comes in the form of Water through Cishaurim, but we know that isn't actually true.  Moe had water and sure doesn't believe the Solitary God works through him.

Where does the Psukhe come from, if not the Solitary God? If it was just another type of magic (like Gnosis/Anagogis/Diamos/etc), then why didn't the Consult know anything about it? Remember, they thought the ability to recognize skin spies was a part of the Psukhe, which implies they have no idea what it does. I suspect that even if the Psukhe isn't divinely powered, it's at least divinely inspired. That is, the first Cishaurim were shown/taught the Psukhe by the Solitary God. Otherwise, why would it only show up among the devotees of the Solitary God?

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The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO Spoilers] The Prince of Hate
« on: July 21, 2016, 03:56:10 pm »
I don't think Cnaiur can be a skin spy, actually. Mimara saw his crimes with the Judging Eye, which implies that he has a soul, which implies that he is not a skin spy. Unless Mimara lied, or she can actually see skin spies as damned (could she see Soma?).

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The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO Spoilers] Whale Mothers
« on: July 21, 2016, 02:22:05 pm »
I'd guess that the Whale Mothers are intelligent, and the physical dysmorphia is required to support full-blooded Dunyain children ("the seed is too strong"). Doesn't explain why Serwa and Thelopia look human though. Maybe the Whale Mother gene is recessive?

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The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO Spoilers] Kellhus
« on: July 21, 2016, 02:01:22 am »
I strongly doubt that Kellhus returned to Momenn for Esme's sake, or even the fate of the new Empire.

Yeah. I'm actually a little confused about what purpose Momemn serves (both for Kellhus and in the story). As best as I can tell, the current function of the Empire is a way to bait the Gods into attacking Kellhus somewhere other than the Ordeal. Not sure why he's attacking Zeum though. Even if he can take control, what is he planning to do with it? It's not like he can get Zeumi troops or mages up to the Ordeal in time.

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The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO Spoilers] The Gods
« on: July 21, 2016, 01:56:19 am »
It is alluded to a couple of times that the no-god, the first apocalypse and the consult are all pretty much blind spots for the Hundred.

That seems strange if they can see Sranc. Wouldn't they at least see the huge swarms of them (and Wracu, and Bashrag) that the No-God commanded?

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The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO Spoilers] The Gods
« on: July 21, 2016, 01:24:47 am »
Yeah the gods can see sranc. This is confirmed in WLW, I think, when the narrative talks about storks tracking them and alerting Sorweel's people of their presence. They are described as 'lies made flesh'.

Huh. Is it just the No-God they're blind to then?

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The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO Spoilers] The Gods
« on: July 20, 2016, 11:21:11 pm »
I thought Zero-God, Solitary God, and God of Gods all were different ways of talking about "all the agencies of the Outside" (as well as the Dunyain concept of "The Absolute"). Maybe "unified" to lesser or greater degrees.

I think Ciphrang and The Hundred are basically the same thing. Agencies in the Outside capable of manipulating souls. The big difference I see is that Ciphrang don't seem to have the same perceptual weirdness as the gods (seeing the future, not seeing the souless). Although that might just be because they are currently Inside, rather than Outside. Maybe perception in the Outside is tied to soul rather than place ("soul became place" in TTT, though that's probably not strictly relevant). When you look at a soul in the Outside, you see that soul's whole existence, from creation to destruction. But you can't see stuff that doesn't have a soul. Which explains why the gods can't see Sranc.

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Author Q&A / Re: Whence the Inchoroi?
« on: July 19, 2016, 12:26:34 am »
I don't think there's any particular reason the Inchoroi came to Earwa. My read of Wutteat's dialog in WLW is that the Ichoroi had simply been traveling from world to world, killing all but 144k people and seeing if that saved their souls. The reason they're on Earwa is just that they crashed and can't leave. Possibly the No-God seems promising for ending damnation.

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1. Wracu! I want some dragons. I understand that given what we've been told (they're all cowards), we probably aren't going to see these guys until after the No-God returns, but I was hoping for something. If not dragons, at least some additional Tekne creations. Tekne insects? More skinspies with souls? More Synthese?

2. Ciphrang! Whether it's seeing the Scarlet Spires throw down with the Diamos, seeing what meta-Diamotic insights Kellhus has uncovered, or just the (presumed) research the Consult has done in this area, I was hoping to see some Ciphrang loosed for or against the Horde. Seems especially appropriate given the greater focus this book has on the Outside and the Gods. At least Malowebi's death promises something of this in the next book.

3. The ruins of Ishual were a bit disappointing for me (to be clear: the fact that it was ruined, I thought the actual chapters worked very well). I was hoping for an opportunity to see what "sane" Dunyain act like. Also, answers to minor things like "are all Dunyain of the Few" and "why are they learning to read faces if the only people whose faces they see can't be read".

4. More direct confrontation with the Consult. Kellhus fighting Aurang, Swayali fighting Erratic Quya, Mandate fighting whatever remains of the Mangaecca. I anticipate this will happen in a big way in The Unholy Consult, but a taste would have been nice. Maybe Aurang smacking down Saccarees instead of leaving. What has the Consult been up to? What magical secrets have they uncovered with 2000 years to work?

5. Are we just dropping the "what did Mimara do to her Chorae" question? Also, what's the deal with Chipmunk (Achamian sounds like he's about to make a big deal of it just as they're captured)? Did I miss something here?

What TGO not do that you wanted? What did it make you want to see in future books?

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The Great Ordeal / Re: [TGO SPOILERS] Great Quotes from TGO!
« on: July 18, 2016, 03:34:54 pm »
My personal favorite is probably "That I would deliver such Water! As to strike thee to ash!" from Meppa's confrontation with Kellhus.

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