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Messages - Madness

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Literature / Re: YOU MUST TELL ME ... What else are you reading?
« on: July 02, 2013, 03:37:59 pm »
Midnight Tides was actually where I stopped.

best way to do this thread is really everyone get a goodreads account.  there, i started:

I have one, solo, but I've never actually took the time to chronicle my physical library to it. I'll second Wilshire's awe: I've only had two major book purges in my life, at 12 and 21, and in both cases I documented all my book titles to a list. Even then, I wouldn't have owned 1.6k books (though again, even if I included all the books I've ever read, I doubt I'd hit a thousand).

Literature / Re: Satoshi Itoh - Harmony
« on: July 02, 2013, 03:34:18 pm »
In one review, I read that the </Project Itoh> is an homage to the hypercode (?) within Harmony? True, james?

I find it very interesting that he wrote the novelization of MGS4 - probably my favorite video game series of all time; I actually beat Sons of Liberty in Japan, in Japanese, as I was living there when it first came out. Genocidal Organ sounds interesting as well. I wonder if there is an omnibus version of Satoshi Itoh's works forthcoming?

General Earwa / Re: Lack of skin-spies in the glossary
« on: July 02, 2013, 03:29:43 pm »
So any ideas why skin-spies are mysteriously absent from the TTT glossary? I guess if the TTT glossary is supposed to be read as an historical document it makes sense, since skin-spies are a new creation of the Tekne, but I've never actually been told that by Bakker or anyone else on this board. So what gives?

This isn't really that big of a deal, I'm just trying to spark some conversation in this lovely forum of ours :(

+1 the bold. I figure that the Glossary Encyclopaedia Futurus will feature the Skin-Spies as they are more commonly known by TAE.

No frowns, Baztek... we've built it, the posters will come ;).

General Earwa / Re: The PreFAQ
« on: July 02, 2013, 03:26:16 pm »
Again, I don't think the issue is so much generating answers... it's the questions which allude us and drive us mad! They remind me... they remind me of the answers! But what are the questions?

News/Announcements / Re: Suggestion Box
« on: July 02, 2013, 03:18:31 pm »
Hmm... I'm not sure, Wilshire. I shall do some poking around.

Introduce Yourself / Re: Hello everyone!
« on: July 02, 2013, 03:13:26 pm »
Welcome to the Second Apocalypse 2.0, Jackehehe.

Please, please - pester us!

General Earwa / Re: The PreFAQ
« on: June 26, 2013, 12:26:18 pm »
I don't think the problem with an official FAQ is the length and breadth of these topics, but the lack of definitive answers. I propose that the "answers" just be the interpretations of different members.


General Misc. / Re: The Quorum
« on: June 26, 2013, 12:17:33 pm »
Hmm... I've definitely found that I don't see any text (9/10) in the chat unless I'm actually signed in. Callan had messaged me about a similar problem - if signing in doesn't work reliably, try reloading the page, refreshing the chat window or using the pop-out chat option?

Let me know, Baztek. I saw you got on it but in the future...


(I use Firefox basically, religiously, except those rare instances that I'm on someone else's computer, in which case I use Chrome.)

Literature / Re: Satoshi Itoh - Harmony
« on: June 25, 2013, 02:44:02 pm »
I went looking again yesterday based on your post, james, and I believe I will have to order it online. Also, I discovered that this isn't the only book by Project Itoh?

It still looks interesting.

General Earwa / Re: Chorae and the Judging Eye
« on: June 25, 2013, 02:40:04 pm »
This can be its own thread - I'm actually surprised there isn't one already.

As there isn't a pertinent thread, beyond the discussion Wilshire already linked, I thought I'd drag a couple other pieces of speculation - not necessarily stuff I agree with but Thorsten offers a valid stab.

Thorsten's Metaphysics of Earwa - Pre-TJE

Quote from: Thorsten

The Chorae

The Trinkets fall rather nicely into this concept. If sorcery is a Onefold Thought where an insinuation of more in the perceived reality is turned into perceived reality by creating absolute meaning, the Chorae would prevent this by removing the insinuations of more. That is precisely why they are felt by a sorcerer as an absence in the onta (DB, Ch.1). The name is presumably derived from

χωρη - proper place

and this is literally what the Trinkets do - they locally force true reality to be in its 'proper place', i.e. to equal perceived reality. In other words, they destroy reality in order to reinforce an illusion of perception. Small wonder a sorcery based on contradiction like the Aporos was necessary for their creation!

Interestingly enough, it seems the Chorae must touch skin to offer protection from sorcery (WP, Ch.18). The question remains as to why Chorae destroy sorcerers as soon as they have actually used sorcery. It seems in most cases sorcerers touched by a Chorae turn to salt (e.g. TT, Ch. 16), but in some cases, cf. the end of Mo├źnghus, this does not seem to happen. Partially, the explanation may be that Chorae are needed by RSB as a device for the story - without their threat, given the power of sorcery, there would be no need for conventional warfare with armies. It is chiefly the threat of Chorae bowmen which prevents sorcery from becoming the chief means of warfare, so this property of the Chorae is rather needed.

But (leaving aside the salt as a nice dramatic touch) it would also fit into the pattern outlined here. A sorcerer using sorcery leans out of the reality perceived by other people by creating absolute meaning. This other reality (created by the super-consciousness of the Thousandfold Thought) adjusts and is forced locally to agree with the sorcerer's reality. But this adjustment may not be perfect, so in a sense a sorcerer after using sorcery never quite remains in the same reality as other people. Given that true reality is sufficiently indefinite, that doesn't matter. The Chorae however force true reality to agree with perceived reality and hence leave no place for the slightly different reality of the sorcerer, therefore destroying him.

There are also mentions of 'anarcane ground' (TT, Gl. 'Arithau') in the text on which renders sorcery impotent. This may or may not fall into the ideas developed here, there's simply not enough information to judge how anarcane ground works.

Thorsten's Metaphysics of Earwa II - Post-TJE

Quote from: Thorsten
The Judging Eye

The strongest evidence that Kellhus does in fact not represent the God is given by what Mimara's Judging Eye sees in Achamian. Supposedly the Judging Eye should show an objective moral judgement (we have at present no way of really knowing if that is the case, but I'm willing to accept the idea for the moment). Since Kellhus claimed he can rewrite the holy texts and in doing so save the sorcerers from damnation, but Mimara continues do see the damnation of sorcerers, it would follow that Kellhus' claim is wrong. And if Kellhus' claims to spiritual matters are wrong, he cannot be a prophet or represent the God. This would make him appear as someone who poses as a prophet to make use of the belief of others for his own ends - just what he started out to do back in DB.

The truly interesting question is - what does Mimara see when she looks at Kellhus with the Judging Eye? If he is a prophet who just happens to be using the Gnosis, then he may not be damned, but if he is a sorcerer who would like to appear as a prophet, then the Judging Eye would show him as damned just like other sorcerers. Unfortunately, we don't know (although it's a bit of a stretch that Mimara who spent time close to Kellhus wouldn't know and Achamian wouldn't ask her).

In the terminology developed before, what actually is the Judging Eye? It would be something like the ability to see the world while tapping the super-consciousness that is the God, i.e. to see more than one's own judgement, but rather a collective judgement.

The Chorae

Previously I argued that Chorea 'force true reality to be in its 'proper place', i.e. to equal perceived reality [i.e. the God]' and that they can therefore be used to 'anchor' something in reality (in fact, I argued that this is their function for the No-God). This idea is confirmed rather nicely in JE.

At the beginning of the key scene in Ch. 16 Mimara observes how reality seems to move whereas the Chorae remains steady: 'a sense that it is not theTrinket that moves so much as it is the whole of creation about it'. Later she uses the Judging Eye to see 'through' the Chorae, and she finds a light, a 'point of luminous white certainty' which she sees as a Tear of God. That is precisely what one would expect to happen in my theory of Chorae. The Judging Eye shows the objective moral judgement of something. The God is emergent from reality perceiving itself in the minds of people. The Chorae forces true reality to be perceived reality, i.e. it shapes the reality of the God out of chaos - of course that act is identical to the nature of the God, and that is what the Judging Eye perceives. This, in fact, is my main argument why the explanation of what the Judging Eye is is correct - it agrees with everything we can deduce about Chorae.

Achamian is astonished at what Mimara does with the Chorae - he is of the opinion that Hell should have swallowed them whole, Chorae or not. But I don't think that could happen - a Topos, the Outside, should be no more able to swallow a Chorae as a sorcerer should be able to use it. Thus, my conclusion is that Achamian is in error here. After all - how could he know?

I think we simply don't know enough, Deliverator.

A friend of mine and I tried to narrow it down to a specific linguistic statement: Anyone looking at any Chorae with the Judging Eye would see what Mimara saw.

Does that reflect aspects of Aporetic sorcery? Aporos is only historically considered a forbidden branch of sorcery among the Nonmen because of their Quyan Civil Wars before the Fall of the Ark.

Is the Judging Eye actually the perception of righteous Judgment in Earwa?

Do Mimara's words about guarding the Gates actually make the difference and persuade the Wight, rather than the obvious Chorae/Judging Eye phenomenon?

General Earwa / Re: The PreFAQ
« on: June 25, 2013, 02:02:33 pm »
You and I, among others, tried to hash out Topoi in The Ground, the Void and the Outside., if thou is remembering?

General Earwa / Re: A collection
« on: June 25, 2013, 01:59:55 pm »
I never got a list, unfortunately. A couple times I've managed to calibrate some amazon page to show a number of the different translations but I couldn't duplicate my results when I tried again this most recent time to answer your question.

German, Spanish, and French for sure...

The Great Ordeal / Re: Excerpt - The Unholy Consult, Chapter One
« on: June 23, 2013, 02:43:47 pm »
It'll happen. The Logos is without beginning or end...

The White-Luck Warrior / Re: Questions and hopefully answers
« on: June 23, 2013, 02:41:11 pm »
I'm going to enjoy the post-experience breakdown of that collapse of circumstances into living the connotative readings of the text... Bakker seems to think our ideas exceed the-epic-that-is.

General Earwa / Re: A collection
« on: June 23, 2013, 02:20:48 pm »
Seventeen, last time I was privy to such information, with Chinese (Mandarin?) and two other-language deals being worked on?

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