[Madness]

This clears and complicates this conversation:

But remember, though a sorcerous wind would blow mundane shafts away, it would have no effect on bolts fixed with Chorae.

If one the other hand, a Schoolman were to cause a low pressure cell that subsequently unleashed winds... Since sorcery interacts with the real world, it produces real effects that Chorae are useless against.

[Wilshire]

That makes plenty of sense and is kind of how I imagined it. You only need  one level of separation to circumvent the chorae's protection. (Akka bringing down the roof on the Javreh is the first example of this, I think)

I think the real complication here is, again, that the chorae cancels the affects of sorcery on the entire object that it is touching. For me, that brings about the problem of scope and distance. If a single chorae is dropped on the ground, why wouldn't all the ground be immune? One chorae embedded in a castle wall should make the whole fortress immune. One chorae in a Sarcophagus should render the whole shell immune.

[Madness]

Mimara sheltering in Achamian's Wards? Sorweel in Eskeles'?

[Wilshire]

Exactly, but with people, you have a soul to think about. The dimensions of a body/soul is more easily defined that inanimate objects like arrows or walls.

[Madness]

Definite facepalm.

[Wilshire]

Definite facepalm.

?

Anyway, with an arrow you have multiple components, wood and feathers at least, that are all protected by a single chorae. The incorporation of disparate items being included in the "protected entity" makes my brain unhappy. If wood and feathers, why not mortar and stones/bricks, or dirt/grass/rocks ad infinitum.

It obviously doesn't work like that, so then I guess I'm left with some kind of effective distance... but we have no way to measure it, so I'm still irritated.

[Madness]

It obviously doesn't work like that, so then I guess I'm left with some kind of effective distance... but we have no way to measure it, so I'm still irritated.

^ This thought = facepalm .

[mrganondorf]

@ Madness - Elsewhere you were comparing the chorae to a wathi doll and it got me thinking--are chorae full of souls?

@ greatbigsky - I thought the lack of armor would be due to the chorae's effect in spite of any covering.  You wear armor.  Someone nails your breastplate with a chorae-bolt.  You don't instantly die, but the trauma sends you plummeting to the ground where you do die.

You might as well just wear robes and if they keep you from instant death while allowing your mates to catch you, then the armor would just be unnecessary.

@ Francis Buck - the whole thing about chorae and distance really throws me off in the case of Kellhus.  He doesn't mind walking right into Sakarpus (even though that one mandati did).  Although I note that K catches Sorweel before he goes all the way into the citadel.  If Kellhus has figured out a way to negate chorae power, he'll want to save it for the right moment.  Let the Consult/Gods think they can bring him down that way.

@ Wilshire - You got me thinking about the incongruity of Golgotterath.  On the one hand it's supposed to be uber-topoi on the other, it's presumably where chorae are made and they are supposed to return the world to its normal shape. 

ALSO, "Kellhus was losing the battle with 4 Cish."  For shame Wilshire!  Kellhus weren't losing!  He was just posing to put them off their guard!!!  Easier to kill.

Yeah, I'd agree that if a chorae touched an enchanted object it would lose the enchantment…because it would lose the trapped soul and need a new one?

--------

I found it weird when Mimara recognized the chorae on the Captain.  Before that moment I did not know it was possible for one of the few who did not have sorcery to 'see' a chorae.  Do you think that this is more of her being special or can the college of luthimae see chorae too?  Kellhus' inner monologue mentions nothing special about the 'witch-stone' as far as I know.

[Wilshire]

I think chorae, since they are sorcerous artifacts, can be seen by all those that can see the Onta. Just like anyone can see a schoolman because of the mark, or recognize a battlefield scared by sorcery, I believe that they should be able to see the chorae. However, without proper training they might not know something was amiss. After all, Kellhus presumably could see the Onta for years before he left Ishual but never knew he was special until he became aware of the existence of sorcery.

[Madness]

I found it weird when Mimara recognized the chorae on the Captain.  Before that moment I did not know it was possible for one of the few who did not have sorcery to 'see' a chorae.  Do you think that this is more of her being special or can the college of luthimae see chorae too?  Kellhus' inner monologue mentions nothing special about the 'witch-stone' as far as I know.

I think chorae, since they are sorcerous artifacts, can be seen by all those that can see the Onta. Just like anyone can see a schoolman because of the mark, or recognize a battlefield scared by sorcery, I believe that they should be able to see the chorae. However, without proper training they might not know something was amiss. After all, Kellhus presumably could see the Onta for years before he left Ishual but never knew he was special until he became aware of the existence of sorcery.

We don't get Kellhus' perspective in context - it's Cnaiur's POV both times Kellhus encounters or asks after Cnaiur's Chorae.

[Wilshire]

Why bother asking about a rock if it wasn't somehow special. We know that he could see the mark of sorcery left by Mek, so he should have been aware of the onta well before he encountered Cnaiur.

I wonder how far North the Anarcane ground extends to the north....

[mrganondorf]

What do y'all make of all that stuff about different choraes having different 'tastes'?  I think when Cnaiur holds one over Akka's chest at the end of TTT, Akka ponders it momentarily.  Any chance different trapped souls do that?

[Wilshire]

Maybe the taste is simply subjective, and changes based on how damned you are.

[Aural]

Something from Threeseas I don't get,

The issue of the Chorae threshold is also broached in TWP. There is, however, a limited grey zone, consisting of arcane keys, ciphers, and so on, which one of the Few can utter without suffering the bruise or Mark of sorcery. It's the Mark that determines whom the Chorae can kill. If one of the Few can recognize you, then so can those accursed Trinkets.

Is this a continuity issue? Sounds like a Cishaurim should not be affected by Chorae.

[Madness]

Cishaurim are the notable exception and Bakker has pointed out that the Psukhe is a special case, for whatever reasons.