[Madness]

Any information in the book is fair game. So everything through the end of TJE is fair game, any information divulged in WLW should be spoiler tagged. Sometimes it can be hard to accurately remember where that line is, so to be safe putting this in WLW or misnc chatter would eliminate any need for the tag.

+1

WLW? Misc. Chatter? I understand it seems tedious but I really do think that spoilers are a big turnoff to newcomers. So while that might limit the kinds of remaining questions that we who have been immersed can ask in each of the book specific subforums, newcomers could still use those subforums to populate with their own wild theories... Ideally, there would always be another new reader who hasn't yet read Bakker who participates in the forum when they find it along with the series for the first time. When you post it in TJE, I wonder why you want to give me the headache of deciding what does or does not constitute spoilers or priming for narrative, etc, for WLW.

Unless I'm remembering the books wrong, his kids are described in the judging eye (if I am remembering wrong and it's all in WLW, okay, move the thread over to there).

Apart from that, I think your confusing your own perception of there being spoilers involved as me having an intent to give headaches. Anyway I've edited the OP to spoiler blocked one thing and remove

(click to show/hide)

surviving

from it, the rest is my own wild speculation. Perhaps you think I'm so right that you confuse me as giving a spoiler, rather than speculation? 

... I don't actually attribute many people intent. Also, my posts are either all sarcasm or deadly serious, and honestly, usually the latter (so you figure it out ).

But really, what Wilshire wrote. Unless you want to discuss the kids, in relative peace without me harping on you, and how Yatwer might have allowed Kellhus to bear kids at all, as that situation stands only at the end of Judging Eye, I literally don't see the point of starting a thread here as it limits everyone who might want to participate from referencing openly WLW or even the TUC Chapters' excerpt/summary.

[Callan S.]

as that situation stands only at the end of Judging Eye

If you treat the knowledge that Yatwer is the goddess of birth as a spoiler, okay Mike, shift the thread. As I see it, that's not a spoiler - it's in the glossary. I could be saying 'The state of Kellhus's murderous kids (murderous, as described on the blurb on the back of the book) did Moenghus do that?' or 'His kids - did Gilgaol do that?' and have as many spoilers. Cause it's just regular, crazy speculation. If you want to see Yatwers role as goddess of birth as a spoiler and want to move it because of that, okay. But there isn't much point in wanting me to see it as a spoiler as well - I wont.

Yes, most people here would respond to it with knowledge of the full book and latter books. But it doesn't have to be responded to that way and if people want to, they could start their own thread in misc.

[Callan S.]

So, you read 'em all that is there to be read. Spew forth all you have to this topic of whether Yatwers been messing with them two's downstairs stuff and making their kids all like that and all!?

[Madness]

I wasn't calling you out personally (or that specific point), Callan.

This thread, TJE subforum; strong possibility of spoiling the revelations of WLW...

[mrganondorf]

@ Callan - The cup is half full?  Could be that Yatwer/Aurang sought to shut down Esmi's womb entirely and Kellhus was able to mitigate the curse.  The power of a meta-gnostic dunyain?

I'm not sold on those 'nameless ones' all being dead.  I bet Kellhus could find a use for them at Dagliash.  Could be some Anasurimbor monstrosities roll out, possible with the gift of the few and the metagnosis, the Celmomian Prophecy fulfilled in a most unlikely way. 

Also, there's way more of them than we suspect.  Kellhus has been busy.  Maybe he's impregnated all of Eanna during weekend stays.

@ EkyannusIII - Your Dune analogy got me thinking--it's less likely that someone is messing with Esmi and all of the surrogates than someone simply messing with Kellhus.  Either something planted long ago or an ongoing sabotage.  Markless sorcery?  Could be gods and/or dad.  If Esmi's problems stem from her possession in TTT, then Kellhus might be feeling some residual effects from TWP, if what happened on the tree in Caraskand was a possession.

@ Madness - WOW!  Your thing about Aurang->Esmi->Kayutas really ties in with what you were saying elsewhere about Kellhus being offed by a son and Moeghus, dagger and chorae.

[Madness]

Yeah, it'd be interesting, if Kayutas has been affected. Really banking on ancestral memories arising somewhere...

[mrganondorf]

Yeah, it'd be interesting, if Kayutas has been affected. Really banking on ancestral memories arising somewhere...

While I think they'd be neat, and a neat nod to Herbert, I have to say that I found this part of Herbert's story very taxing on the 'suspension of disbelief.'  It would be way more believable in Bakker's world, but when reading Herbert, I found myself thinking "well that is contrived, but still fun, so I'll keep reading."

I like it better in Douglas Adams with the guy who has memories of Genghis Khan.

[Madness]

Hey! You take that kind of talk to Herbert and Bakker . There are too few of us that can participate in that discussion for the content to be spread all diffusely across the forum.

(Lol - I distinguish your comment from mine based on quantity )

[Wilshire]

Hey! You take that kind of talk to Herbert and Bakker . There are too few of us that can participate in that discussion for the content to be spread all diffusely across the forum.

(Lol - I distinguish your comment from mine based on quantity )

Seriously. Don't dilute the wealth.

[mrganondorf]

I think I only think of Herbert stuff when I'm on other threads!  Sorry!  I read the Bakker/Herbert thread and thought, "I have nothing to add."  Then something comes to me at an unrelated thread

About Kellhus kids, maybe instead of seeing them as Yatwerian interference, they should be read as manifestations of the meta-gnosis.  Kayutas is first and more or a raw product.  Serwa is fashioned to be both female and Gifted.  Theli, Inrilatas, and the nameless one could all be experiments that didn't work out just right.  The twins are perhaps Kellhus' greatest achievement as he was able to siphon the most strength into one body and the greatest amount of weaknesses into the other. 

This is my new favorite crackpot: that Kellhus is preparing Kelmomas body for some reason, perhaps to be possessed by his dad!